[untog]

Vastly used? I'm not so sure about that. Vastly used in tandem with H264 when required? Absolutely.

If iOS can hardware decode H264 but not WebM it actually isn't in the user's interest to support WebM, because it'll reduce incentive to provide H264 versions of content, which means iOS users will experience battery drain faster.

It might not be particularly fair, but it does make sense.

[wlesieutre]

Native apps like VLC can play WebM on iOS with software decoding, but as you say it murders the battery.

If Apple supported that in browsers I'd bet that Google or other companies would switch their video hosting over, much to the detriment of anyone who watches videos on an iPhone. It's an open standard so clearly they're doing the pro-consumer good thing!

[gsich]

It would give an incentive to Apple to support hardware decoding.

[acdha]

Again, who benefits from this? You’re talking about duplicating a ton of work simply to have approximately the same quality.

You can contrast this with AV1 which is also a lot of work but which delivers better quality at smaller sizes. It’s not surprising that they picked that option instead.

[gsich]

Everyone.

[acdha]

You mean “me”. This is not a mainstream issue which normal people care about: they use a browser or app, click play, and it works.

Very few people care about what format that uses.

[clouddrover]

"Normal" people also don't care about TCP\IP or HTTP or HTML or image formats or any of the detail that makes the web or the internet generally work. It's a pointless argument.

"Normal" people do care about their videos starting fast with high image quality. AV1 will deliver them that and deliver it better than H.264 has done. This is true whether they know it or not, whether they care about it or not.

[gsich]

Yes. So because few people are about it, it's irrelevant? I don't think so. Most people also don't care how their device works, or basically anything that's not their area of expertise. Are all those irrelevant too?

[pwinnski]

Apple does support hardware decoding, just not of webm.

[gsich]

Yes, vastly used. Just look at Youtube. Besides it's a free codec.

How do you know what's in the users interest? A choice between "Video playing" vs. "Video not playing" is pretty obvious to me. (And I am a user too)

If battery really is a concern (assuming it is), just make it an option not to play videos if they require software decoding.

Besides that, users usually (an assumption I made, just as you did) don't watch lengthy videos (1-2 hours) on an iOS device.

[untog]

> Yes, vastly used. Just look at Youtube.

The service that also provides H264 versions of its content, you mean? Which is the point I already made.

> How do you know what's in the users interest? [...] If battery really is a concern (assuming it is)

Well, Apple is heavy-handed with its users. They make a lot of assumptions about what is best for them, and this is one of them.

> don't watch lengthy videos (1-2 hours) on an iOS device.

I suspect Netflix would disagree with you.

[gsich]

They don't know whats best for them if there is a user who wants something different. You might invoke appealing to the mass here, that doesn't make it true however.

Netflix on an iPhone? Probably not. At least not holding it in your hand for 2 hours.

[acdha]

> Netflix on an iPhone? Probably not. At least not holding it in your hand for 2 hours.

Do you have data to support this or are you just assuming that your personal tastes are universal? I see quite a few people watching videos on phones or tablets – ever see parents loading up their kid’s iPad before a flight?

[gsich]

This may be: http://www.businessinsider.sg/netflix-has-300-million-viewer...

With 80% on a "big" device.

I also watch videos, but "video" is not a movie or series. Video sounds more like 15 min. max and/or not "cinematic".

[ascorbic]

I'm not sure what point you're making. 20% is still tens of millions of people watching Netflix (so movies and series) on mobile devices.

[untog]

> They don't know whats best for them if there is a user who wants something different.

Obviously. But that's not how Apple works. You do things their way, or you get an Android phone/Windows laptop. They make the choices for users, and judging by market share a very solid number of people are very content with that arrangement.

[Terretta]

YouTube is not ‘vastly’. Get back to us when it’s ‘vast’ among commercial content providers.

Contrary to your point about not watching on iOS, I, and everyone I know, watch all content on an iOS device, both in the living room and on the go.

There is certainly a segment of the market that is using misc devices or “casting” to USB sticks plugged into TVs, but the 4K TV owning cord cutters I know tend to also own iPhones and use Apple TVs.

We saw this shift happen even more when iOS (and TvOS) gained SSO across apps with the “TV” app as indexer, and another bump when Amazon Prime released.

[gsich]

Why not? Just go by traffic. Youtube default to VP9 on Chrome, so yes it is vastly used. Netflix can't even display 4K on the desktop properly.

If you watch in the living room (on TV) you are not watching it on the iOS device. By that I mean the screen of the iOS device. Being in the living room, watching on TV, means you have no battery issue. Watching on your device means literally that, watching it on your device with your devices' screen. Not some casting or streaming to other displays.

[MBCook]

So what you’re saying is since Google has manipulated the environment so that Google’s preferred codec is the most used on Google‘s website, which happens to be the largest video site on the Internet… that means Google’s codec is better.

If we ignore YouTube, which Google controls to their own benefit, what’s the percentage of WebM/VP9 versus H264/H265?

[izacus]

Why are you using double standards when talking about Google's codec choices vs. Apple codec choices. Do you think Apple collecting royalties for h.264/h.265 has nothing to do with them preventing you from using VP9?

[matthewmacleod]

I think we can say with quite a lot of confidence that any royalties Apple receives for h.264 are a rounding error in their income, and they will have ~zero impact on their decision to support other codecs or not.

[MBCook]

H264 is also used by Blu-Ray isn’t it? I know my cable system switched to it from MPEG2 a few years ago.

H264 is used in other places in the electronics industry. That’s one of the reasons Apple picked it. Isn’t it the format most digital cameras record video in?

WebM/VP9 is used by... Google. And Wikipedia (who won’t use something with patent licensing). Is there anything else big?

[gsich]

No. It means that it's used.