[crazygringo]

If you stick to an old iOS, you lose the ability to install usable applications at all.

Apple will let you download the most recent version of an app supported by your OS... but only if you'd installed it previously. If you try to install an app for the first time, it won't give that option, and will instead tell you to upgrade your iOS instead. And then there's the fact that many of the old apps simply won't work, because they rely on out-of-date API's no longer supported by servers.

Due to the inability to choose versions of apps to install, I'd say that in iOS the user is not in control of their software.

[thinkythought]

This isn't entirely true, and only applies to really old versions of iOS like 6, on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc). I just installed some new applications on my ipad 3 running iOS 9 this weekend with no issues. It grabbed the newest compatible version, and i was able to start plugging away almost immediately.

The only thing that hamstrung me was having to sign out and in to the itunes store once, but i was able to install several games and hulu(which worked!)

I do wish you got a popup with a few options of which point release to install, but i think "newest compatible point release" is a good system for 99% of users

[khedoros1]

> and only applies to really old versions of iOS like 6, on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc).

I find this amusing; iOS 6 is just 4 years old (at least, the newest revision of it). My iPod Touch is about 9, and started losing access to new apps about 6-7 years ago.

And of course, Youtube, Netflix, and such stopped supporting the relevant codecs years ago too.

[scarface74]

No they haven't. Netflix works on all of the devices Apple has introduced since 2010. I know. I have all three of them.

[khedoros1]

Hi! I'm not talking about a device introduced after 2010; I'm talking about a device introduced in 2007, and which I bought about mid-2008. You have 3 devices that I wasn't talking about (beyond being amused by iOS 6 and iPhone 4 being called really/truly old).

Back to the iPod Touch that I was talking about: The Netflix app that's on there (the newest available for iPhone OS 3.1.3) apparently can't authenticate with Netflix's current backend. Their site says that there's a version for iOS 5 that will still work, and that the current version requires iOS 9.

[scarface74]

That's true. I also have a first gen functional iPod Touch from 2007. It's not a codec issue, Netflix doesn't support that version of the authentication API.

As I said in another post, comparing the longevity of a mobile device in its first decade to a PC is Apples and Oranges.

Today, I have a few 10 year old computers that are still being used either by me or my parents. My 10 year old PC, I'm using as a plex server can use modern USB 2 peripherals, has gigabit Ethernet that takes full advantage of my gigabit internet, runs a modern OS (Windows 10), etc. It has a 1920x1200 display. It has 4Gb RAM but can be upgraded to 8. 10 years later, most consumer PCs come with 8GB.

Now in 2008, my Gateway Solo from 1998 with an 800x600 display, 16Mb RAM, no USB, and a 4GB hard drive would have been useless. It definitely couldn't run modern software.

But going back to iPads. Compare the longevity of the iPad in 2010 running iOS 5 with a 2007 iPod Touch that came out 4 years earlier. On the other end, compare the longevity of an iPad 2 that got upgraded from iOS 5 to iOS 9 to the first gen that only got upgraded from iOS 3 to iOS 5. I fully expect to see the usefulness of mobile devices - at least on the Apple side where you actually get OS updates to continuously lengthen.

[khedoros1]

> It's not a codec issue, Netflix doesn't support that version of the authentication API.

And you'll notice that I corrected the statement from my first post, in the post that you replied to.

> As I said in another post, comparing the longevity of a mobile device in its first decade to a PC is Apples and Oranges.

Where in this thread have I compared the longevity of a mobile device to a PC? If you'd like, I'll add a device comparison. My 40 year old Atari 2600 (from the first decade of home gaming systems) still sees use, and works as well as it ever did.

Time becomes much more of a factor when we rely on constant 3rd party maintenance (app stores, online services, and so on). The age of the device category is less pertinent than how much it relies on off-device services to provide functionality.

> Now in 2008, my Gateway Solo from 1998 with an 800x600 display, 16Mb RAM, no USB, and a 4GB hard drive would have been useless. It definitely couldn't run modern software.

A couple things here. First, I hope you didn't spend much for that computer. Mine at the time had 6x the RAM, USB, and double the hard drive space. Second, I don't see why it would need to run modern software, for the sake of comparison. I'm not asking the iPod to run modern software, I'm asking it to provide the capabilities that it did when I bought it, which it can't, due to excessive reliance on an app store that refuses to carry older software and other 3rd party services that like to move forward in incompatible ways.

[kup0]

Was helping someone out recently with getting their iPhone set up to download apps. They had the phone for a while but only used it as a phone (they aren't tech-savvy). We couldn't even install the Kroger (grocery store) app because it said it required iOS 11, and she was still on 10.

She was not given the option to download an older version compatible with iOS 10 and the device is old enough that it does not support iOS 11.

[Karrot_Kream]

> on truly old devices(ipad 1, iphone 4, etc)

When I was growing up, my parents would give me their 5 year old hand-me-down computers, which were already 4-5 years old or so. the iPhone 4 is 8 years old, so that would already be DOA for my teenage self.

[thinkythought]

This still holds up too. My mom is using my ipad air, which is now about 5 years old. Current software, runs smoothly, no complaints

[rahimnathwani]

I'm using an iPad Air 2, and I've found it sluggish for the past year or so. Still usable, but I've switched to preferring to use my phone for quick searches and 50% of idle surfing/shopping.

My dad is happy with his iPad 4th generation, which is one iOS version behind. But he is more patient than I, and also it's his only internet-connected device, so he's not comparing it to a fast PC or fast smartphone.

[Karrot_Kream]

Yeah sorry, I wasn't really objecting to the parent comment. My sister used an iPad from 2007 until earlier this year, when she upgraded to an iPad from 2016.

[crankylinuxuser]

Are we on HN seriously arguing who controls an iOS device?

Can I:

     1. Download iOS program binary
     2. Install said iOS binary
     3. Inspect files copied on by installing binary
     4. Modify said files

The answer to all of those is no. Who can?

Apple.

[earenndil]

You can, if you jailbreak. I'm not defending apple, I think it's incredibly shitty what they've done but what you're describing is absolutely possible. Beyond that, having modified those files, it's possible to install the modified program on a non-jailbroken device.

[scarface74]

Or you download it from iTunes.

Apple still makes an older version of iTunes available.