[DanielBMarkham]

You can have meaning or you can have happiness. You cannot have both -- at least not all of the time. This conflict can be seen clearly in a movie like "Office Space", where both the male and female leads are working for happiness (and survival) whereas the work environment expects them to be working for meaning. (How many pieces of flair are you wearing?)

The trick to this discussion is that people on one side of the discussion frankly don't understand folks on the other side. The things they say and do don't make any sense. If you're a meaning person, you read the title of this essay -- "If You’re So Successful, Why Are You Still Working 70 Hours a Week?" and think if you're successful, why wouldn't you be working 70 hours a week? You're doing what you love, making a difference in the world! It's only those that are unsuccessful, those who work for meaning but aren't very effective, that would spend a lot of time doing nothing.

For both camps, it seems the world is full of people from the other camp, basically ruining things for the rest of us. It would be great if we could convey this critical piece of information to people early on in life. So much time and energy is spent in conflicts with other folks where it's not needed.

[hnzix]

"People with careers need to learn to shut the fuck up around people with jobs. Don't let your happiness make somebody sad. [...] When you got a career, there ain't enough time. When you got a job, there's too much time." -- Chris Rock

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlNUZqFzgY

[watwut]

That outlook on life is horrible in so many ways ...

[Waterluvian]

I used to work 60 hours a week because I absolutely loved what I did. It gave me meaning. Then I had a son and it fell to 40... Then 30... Then I quit. Now I'm home with him and absolutely love what I'm doing. I still feel successful nurturing a little human. It gives me more meaning than my job ever did. Financially I need to work again, but I doubt it will ever be the nexus of my day.

[DanielBMarkham]

What a great story. And so now you spend 60, 70, or more hours a week with your son, which gives your life meaning.

Nobody said you have to have the same values for your entire life, or that somehow you have to go punch a clock to make a difference in the world. This is about happiness and meaning, not work or family. The two don't have to have anything to do with one another.

You and you alone decide what your values are and what gives your life meaning -- and whatever that is can and probably should (?) change throughout your life.

[aceon48]

Are you male or female?

[Waterluvian]

Typically I'd question why it matters but I appreciate that this is a very gender role specific topic. I'm male.

[gem1123]

Were you a web developer?

I found my web dev colleagues were much more aware of the gender imbalances in the world and the expectation that I (female) would be the nurturer in my family.

[Waterluvian]

I'm a geographer (The STEM program that was 51% female at my university). I'd like to think I have nurtured a balanced progressive view of the world, but we all have our biases.

[ssfrr]

This comment really baffles me, particularly the Office Space reference. Generally I see that movie invoked specifically to reference the meaninglessness of most white-collar work. TPS reports and pieces of flair are supposed to be absurd examples of things that employers to do dehumanize and control employees - the opposite of meaningful goals.

I think most people want meaningful (purposeful?) lives. Some find that almost exclusively through their work, some through their nonprofessional activities, some through their families. Most are probably a mixture. I think people often find happiness through figuring out what's important to them and organizing their life around that.

[deepGem]

I think there is more nuance to meaning and happiness. The process of attaining meaning, in my view, is torturous. Think of any field - sports, theater. I don't think any athlete or sportsperson would call the process of attaining meaning a happy process. It's no fun to wake up at 5 in bone chilling cold for a workout. There's definitely some element of happiness driving this process. From what I can postulate, it's the end result or the chain of end results that brings about meaning and happiness. Somehow I can't disintegrate the two.

It's perfectly ok to not find that meaning and happiness at work, but find it somewhere else. Otherwise, like Warren Buffett says you'll just sleep walk through life.

[DanielBMarkham]

I agree. I am vastly oversimplifying for a large audience.

Anything you do that doesn't bring immediate gratification is work, whether you're going somewhere to punch a clock or just cleaning up the yard after a storm. Some people manage to do a lot of work without finding any happiness. Some people are able to find happiness in most any kind of work. Perhaps they are more internally-focused?

When I see people that society regards as having a lot of purpose and meaning in life, athletes, religious folks, and so on? Frankly it looks like a struggle. As you say, it's no fun to wake up at 5 in bone chilling cold for a workout. There's no external stimulation here, yet there are people at 5am that have a pleasant feeling that they are on the way to do some good in the world, no matter the external circumstances.

The interplay between meaning and happiness is quite complex and nuanced. I not don't think you can separate them out cleanly but at the same time there are two completely different things at work and they deserve separate consideration. When we conflate the two, it makes the reader dumber than they were before they started. Much better to start from a position of "These are two different things" and then talk about the interplay between the two than treat them all as one thing and lower the level of the discussion.

[deepGem]

Perhaps they are more internally-focused? Yep, I am flummoxed by people who don't seem to be bothered by chores. One of my friends said she enjoyed doing the dishes. Something beyond my understanding drives them.

Much better to start from a position of "These are two different things" and then talk about the interplay between the two Spot on ! I've so far been unsuccessful at understanding this interplay.

[StavrosK]

You're assuming everyone finds meaning in work. Some people find meaning in other things.

[barrkel]

I think there is a dichotomy, but I don't think it's meaning vs happiness. Rather, it might be people who find meaning in what they do for a living, vs finding meaning in what they do outside of work. The key, I think, is identity; your answer to the question: "what are you?"

Happiness is a more complex question, I'd refer people to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I'd add that happiness is usually fleeting, contentment and engagement with life is more achievable.

[watwut]

I don't understand why meaning and happiness are mutually exclusive. For me, I rarely can have one without another. do

Also importantly, overworking yourself does not lead to happiness and only to illusion of meaning. Long term 70 hours a week schedules are not about effictivity or happiness. Even if you absolutely love that job.