[Helmet]

> Eluding taxes is super-unethical.

Debatable - some of us hold taxation to be tantamount to theft, so we believe in the exact opposite. I'm not here to debate or change your mind though, just offering a perspective.

> America made it possible for them to start a company like that....

What do you mean by "America" made it possible? Steve Jobs, Wozniak, and all the other people who worked there made it possible.

> people gave the a shitload of money,

No one "gave" them money. They voluntarily purchased a product or service.

> It doesn't matter if one is obliged by law to do something or not.

Yes it does.

> I don't have to offer an old lady my seat on the bus, but what kind of piece of shit doesn't do that?

That...is a ridiculous analogy.

[dang]

Please don't use HN for generic ideological battle. It's far away from what this site is for. Worse, destroys what it is for, so the well-being of the forum needs people to abstain from it here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[nkkollaw]

Sorry.

[nkkollaw]

I disagree with every single point you made, but I'm on mobile.

The only thing worth typing might be that the US have setup a business environment that allowed them to grow (which you take for granted).

If I started a company in my garage the Italian government would shut me down in a split second.

[FridgeSeal]

> some of us hold taxation to be tantamount to theft, so we believe in the exact opposite

How do you like those roads you've used to go to work or shopping. Or that power/water/gas infrastructure. Or the public health system. Or maybe the emergency services? How about the legal system?

They're all paid for by taxes. If you live in a country where this takes place the price is that you pay tax to contribute to the development, upkeep and use of said system. If you don't like it, I'm sure you can find a 3rd world country somewhere where you can fulfill your libertarian wet dream of building all your own infrastructure.

> What do you mean by "America" made it possible? Steve Jobs, Wozniak, and all the other people who worked there made it possible.

And what country did they live in that afforded them the education, resources and economy to support their work? People don't flock to America and SF to make startups because they like bay views and paying exorbitant rent. They go there because of the economic and social circumstances are favourable to starting and running a business.

[dang]

As I explained to your enemy upthread, ideological battle is exactly what this is site isn't for and we need you guys to take it elsewhere. Please don't post like this to HN.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[nkkollaw]

Thank God someone uses his brain.

[FridgeSeal]

Yeah I think we hit a nerve here lol.

[Helmet]

>They're all paid for by taxes.

Thanks for the reminder; and to think that I've spent a lifetime just assuming that public infrastructure grew out of the ground, like grass.

Look, I said I wasn't trying to change the guy's mind or debate. This isn't anything new, we've discussed this about a million times and I'm sure we'll never agree on the proper role and scope of taxation. My statement was simply a counterpoint to the completely undefended and unqualified idea that "Eluding taxes is super-unethical."

>And what country did they live.....

Ah yes, the cosmic effects that we must pay tribute to because we happened to be in the right place at the right time. If we're headed down that route, "America" deserves about as much credit as the invention of mathematics, or at the very least, the computer. Maybe we should thank Steve's mother. We can go down the line infinitely. The point is, people create, build, and make things, and it's those people that should be attributed and credited.

[nickpp]

The top 3 things USA govt spends your tax money on are:

1. Social Security 2. Medicare and Health 3. Military

The other categories are tiny in comparison.