[Ambroos]

I'm not so sure. The majority of Belgians speak Dutch and we are perceived as a lot less direct. The first example in the article, "What do you want?" or the translation in Dutch, is something you'll rarely hear in Belgium. We would use the Dutch variant of "How can I help you?" or a more polite version of "What would you like?".

Belgians wouldn't dream of telling someone on the train to keep it down (we'll just stare disapprovingly and hope for the best), while the Dutch will just get up and ask someone to be quieter.

And Belgians aren't as honest in communicating negative things. We usually have the bad habit of casting doubt over our own opinions before stating them. "I might be mistaken, but I think this might not work because..." is a very common thing. Many people do things like this even when they are very confident they are not mistaken. It'd surprise me if the Dutch do this.

[mtrimpe]

Having grown up with 1/4 Belgian and 3/4 Dutch culture I can very much confirm.

For me, the main thing is that the Dutch simply don't layer their speech whereas in most other cultures there is huge difference between what's being said and what is really meant by that.

In Dutch culture that basically doesn't exist except at levels where it's inevitable (politics, upper management) and even there it's much less subtle than it would be elsewhere and you need to carefully calibrate to see if your conversation partner picks up on it or not.

Given that there is no such double/hidden layer to use it's no surprise that we inevitably became more blunt and direct.

Perhaps it's a result from our long history as traders and the realization we can't possibly manage double/hidden layers for all the cultures we interacted with and thus ended up throwing out the concept altogether.

[DoreenMichele]

Perhaps it's a result from our long history as traders

That was my thought as well. Trade languages are always intentionally simplified and essentially impossible to use for dropping indirect hints. I believe this is very much a feature, not a bug. It substantially reduces opportunities for cross cultural misunderstandings and faux pas.

Apropos of nothing, I really liked the Dutch proverb in the article "Just be normal. That's crazy enough."

[jules]

The literal translation of "What do you want?" is "Wat wil je?", and this is considered impolite. You're unlikely to hear this from a Dutch waiter. You might hear "Wat wilt u?", but even this is rather curtly. The words "je" and "u" both get translated to "you" in English. "U" signifies respect.

[Fnoord]

"U" is the equivalent of "Sie" in German, but the Germans are far more gründlich (thorough) with using Sie correct. It instantly makes you feel more a respected customer.

[tankenmate]

In middle English and early modern English there was the distinction between thou and you (nominative case; thee and you for the accusative/dative case), the first is familiar and the second is polite. Obviously these days the familiar has been dropped and so indirect idiom takes the place of the honorific.

[cr1895]

"want" vs. "like", isn't it still just willen in het Nederlands?

I seem to recall hearing "wat kan ik voor u doen?" or "wat willen jullie drinken?" for example. I'm still learning Dutch, but neither of those carries more or less directness or softness to me.

[Ambroos]

I was going for "Wat mag het zijn?" which is something I hear a lot when going out, but is hard to translate. I thought the distinction between want and like in English conveys a similar idea.

[Fnoord]

Oh, if its from the south, they got a little bit more customs & manners over there IMO. Try Maastricht, for example.

Literally, it'd be "what may it be" but I don't think a good translation is possible. It'd end up with something like "what is your preference?" but I could come up with a Dutch, formal version of that: "wat mag het u believen?" where "believen" is an equivalent to "wünschen". A German could say, in short, "Sie wünschen?" and with the correct tone and body language it wouldn't be rude. You could say the same about Dutch; tone and body language are very important in communication (I have autism and am in an autism support group where this was recently addressed wink.)

Or perhaps rather "what would you like to order", but shorter. A German translation would end up with "Was möchten Sie haben?" though the Dutch one you mentioned cleverly avoids "du vs Sie" aka (in Dutch) tutoyeren [1]. I find it weak; get over yourself and treat the customer as such. Heck, how about having pride in treating your customer well? Something thoroughly lacking in The Netherlands. And I get it; sometimes you're tired while working such job or it is late or a bad day but this isn't that; it is systematic, and rather rampant in "Randstad" (big cities in Holland).

The Germans use "bitte" a lot more, and are always formal in situations where the Dutch have swapped to "jij/je". Especially Vodafone Netherlands (who got their helpdesk ironically in Maastricht) is so obviously using "jij/je" on their support pages. Cringeworthy! Hello?! I am your customer not your acquaintance!! Also compare for example casual restaurants in Germany and The Netherlands.

It isn't that these rules of using "u" don't exist in Dutch; they do. Its just -slowly but surely- being used less and less with a turning point around the (wild) '70s.

[1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutoyeren

[cr1895]

>"Wat mag het zijn?" which is something I hear a lot when going out

I don't recall ever hearing this in the NL. Maybe it's a Flemish thing.

[wila]

It is a common question in the southern parts of the Netherlands.

[donkeyd]

I visit Belgium quite regularly. I've also noticed that people never really greet each other in the streets, unless they're already familiar. In the Netherlands it's quite normal to greet pretty much anybody.