Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by goty2 3066 days ago
There are obviously differences. The point I am trying to make is that there is no one answer. It is not like the flaw happened to be that the US has 5% too high corporate tax and if you lower that somewhere will become Shenzhen.

Shenzhen is special because it was the first area in China to liberalize. The US have already have those features, including special economic zones in form of states.

So if Shenzhen is successful because it is special shouldn't the US make some areas special as well? It essentially already did in the form of e.g. the bay area.

But Shenzhen didn't stop growing. California has plenty of space in the Central Valley, but no infrastructure.

Shenzhen built ~200 subway stations in 15 years. The US is trying to build that rail line between SF and LA. (The line between HK and SZ is delayed because of HK though).

So there is no one answer. It is all there. Sure, you could say that the government should step in, tax the tech companies, build infrastructure and allocate land for these cities to expand. But that wouldn't be very popular with voters.

Or one could move to Wyoming (?) and pay little tax. But what makes that place special in comparison to other places and what is going to keep people there as living costs go up? And once the companies succeed and the state wants to invest in infrastructure why wouldn't the companies just leave?

The best I can come up with is to find some underutilized university and build an incubator where the state (or a company, probably a non-profit) invests in companies for equity while offering some cash, free living and office space. The profits are then used to execute a long term development plan of the area. But that is of course as hard to do as anything else.

1 comments

The US didn’t make special economic areas, they just arose organically. There are big differences between a command and control economy (China) and a more liberal one where things just happen (or don’t).

China is still way behind on infrastructure if you divide it by the number of people to serve, they are still catching up. We are reminded of that in whenever it rains all he roads flood or freezing my butt off in southern china in winter because indoor heating is too luxurious.

> The US didn’t make special economic areas, they just arose organically.

True enough. I just don't think Shenzhen is special enough as an economic zone to make a difference in the US. Somewhere like Nevada is probably ahead of Shenzhen in terms of economic freedom. There is an even more special zone in Shenzhen called the Futian Free Trade Zone which might be special even in relation to the US. But I am not sure that it has much impact overall.

> There are big differences between a command and control economy (China) and a more liberal one where things just happen (or don’t).

Right. That is partly why I don't think Shenzhen, while certainly interesting in itself, offers that many lessons for the west. Unless you are happy with "wait until the rust belt is desperate, then expand Seattle by 10x with government backed capital, make workers live in dorms".

I guess one way to look at it is that Shenzhen is the rust belt. The big coastal cities in the US is more trade centers, like Hong Kong. Before the information age people had to be close to the factories. When manufacturing moved to China the rich became free to move to the coastal trade centers instead. Predictably those trade centers aren't developing much, because the workers aren't part of that migration.

> We are reminded of that in whenever it rains all he roads flood or freezing my butt off in southern china in winter because indoor heating is too luxurious.

That is true of Europe too though. Up north there is district heating and double glazed windows with argon in between, while down south they run the pipes on the outside of the buildings in some places. Paris flooded a few days ago. Granted that is an old city.

I do think there is something to be said about the standard of living in the US. As much as public infrastructure might be "not as good as the good parts of e.g. China", private infrastructure is certainly of a high economic standard. It might very well be that people in the US have to change the way they live, which seems to have been developed for good times, to be competitive.

I don't know. I have a hard time imagining Europe flooding with just a bit of rain as happened occasionally in Beijing for brand spanking new stuff they just built but...oops, forgot to add drainage underneath.

China has focused a lot of sexy infrastructure (gleamy sky scrapers, HSR, mega-bridges) but not enough at all on unsexy infrastructure (water-treatment plants, drainage, almost anything that isn't superficial).

I get what you mean. I definitely wouldn't say Shenzhen is a modern city as such, despite the skyscrapers and greenery. That is part of the charm though. It is, or used to be, an order of magnitude cheaper to live in SZ than HK. There is of course also absurd levels of inequality, which is less charming but reality.
> The US didn’t make special economic areas, they just arose organically.

What are/were “Enterprise zones”, “Empowerment Zones”, “Renewal Communities”, and “Enterprise Communities” in the US, then, if not government-created special economic areas?

Nope. Do you have any concrete examples?
Ok...so you are really going to compare Jersey Gardens to Shenzhen?