[pjmlp]

C# is surely native as well.

It can be compiled to native code just like C++ via NGEN, .NET Native, CoreRT, IL2CPP, Bartok, Mono AOT.

Or if you prefer, C++ is not native. It's converted to LLVM bitcode, OS/400 TIMI, WASM,....

Lets not mix languages with implementations.

[bayindirh]

> It can be compiled to native code...

In that sense, you are absolutely right.

However, for simplicity I only thought about the out of the box experience, or by the de-facto implementation of the said languages, since it’s the most popular usage scenario as well.

[pjmlp]

Well, since Windows 8 .NET store apps don't support JIT, they only run AOT compiled to native.

And NGEN is a standard component of the .NET SDK since the beta days.

So AOT compilation has been part of the default tooling since ever.

[gpderetta]

I guess native needs to be qualified. I would say that Native means it speaks the ABI of and fits into a specific platform.

I would say that the C family languages are traditionally native of most operating systems [1] as they are polyglot and can directly speak whatever C ABI dialect is used there; they also work with the native platform tools.

C# is really native of the .Net platform and although it can be AoT compiled it either can't talk directly with Win32 or the interfacing is not seamless. Also it has its own set of tools.

Android and iOS are interesting because although they are clearly unix derivatives, the unix interface is not the primary interface; so arguably C and C++ are not really native there while Java and ObjectiveC/Swift respectively are.

[1] Or to be fair, of unix and any operating system that can be made to look like unix (Windows).

[pjmlp]

> Win32 or the interfacing is not seamless

Well then Rust, D, Swift, Go, Rust, Haskell, OCaml are not native by that measure.

C# integration with Win32, COM and UWP (aka COM reborned) is painless comparing with any of them.

[gpderetta]

I think Rust and D have seamless integration with C style ABIs. Swift is native on iOS. Haskel and OCaml have, as far as I understand, painful FFIs and a relatively heavy runtime so I wouldn't call them native.

edit: to be clear, using 'compiles to object code' as the definition of Native, is both a misuse of the word, and meaningless as it is a implementation detail that can change easily and bound to be obsolete quickly.

[pjmlp]

Try to write a GUI WIndows app, COM server, or service daemon in Rust and C#, then let me know which one is more native.

Bonus points if it is a UWP one.

[bayindirh]

Well, I’m not very knowledgeable about Windows world, as I said before, I’m not using Windows for 15 years or so. So, my bad, sorry.

[pjmlp]

If you, or others want to know a bit more about it,

NGEN

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/tools/ngen...

AOT Compilation for Windows 8.x store apps, based on Singularity's Bartok compiler

https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-005

https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Mani-Ramaswamy-an...

AOT Compilation for Windows 10 store apps, using Visual C++ backend

https://channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/Inside-NET-Native

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/net-native...

[bayindirh]

Thanks a lot. I will read them as soon as possible.