[harryh]

What new found wealth do you think people would have without workers pushing for their rights?

The wealth created by productivity improvements due to new technology.

Programmers make a lot more money now than they did 20 years ago. Not because of unions (which are extremely rare for programmers), but because of productivity improvements. A single programmer can accomplish vastly more now than was possible in the past.

The same is generally true for all professions though the rate of improvement is obviously generally much much slower.

You're certainly right to claim that unionization can somewhat move the needle when it comes to the distribution of earnings between capital and labor, but overall this effect tends to be pretty small when compared to improvements due to productivity gains as long as we're looking at things on the scale of decades and not just the short term.

[sedachv]

> Programmers make a lot more money now than they did 20 years ago. Not because of unions (which are extremely rare for programmers), but because of productivity improvements. A single programmer can accomplish vastly more now than was possible in the past.

That is complete nonsense. If your hypothesized productivity increase were true, it would be reflected in a decreased demand for programming labor (just like the advent of combines and tractors made farm workers more productive and decreased the demand for farm labor). The only reason programmers are paid more now than 20 years ago is because of an increase in demand for their labor.

The productivity improvements come from the product of this labor: software. This explains the growth in demand for programmers - telecommunications infrastructure improvements and ubiquitous computers mean that companies now have many more opportunities for automating processes with software than they did 20 years ago, and are trying to take advantage of these opportunities to increase profits.

[fjsolwmv]

Programmers make more money because their work is profitable AND demand far outstripped supply. Walmart is also highly profitable but labor supply exceeds demand so low wages.

[prewett]

Google has a profit margin of 20% while Walmart has a profit margin of 2.3%, according to Yahoo! Finance. Labor supply for Walmart probably does exceed demand, but that is only because Walmart uses unskilled labor. Walmart can't pay much more than it does without raising prices, but it also can't raise prices much and maintain its market segment as lowest cost provider.