[throwaway2801]

> having discovered atheism at such a tender age, they are left hopeless and desolate. (emphasis mine)

What??

As if atheists were monsters.

As an atheist (more agnostic actually - I cannot be sure no gods exist), your answer feels interesting but also surprising, very saddening and actually chocking.

Let's not make atheists look like evil people who make children depressed. This is not OK.

I never needed to have any "faith" to be happy. Solving my problems actually seems to be the solution to my happiness, not to believe or have faith in anything. On the other side, a big part of many religions seems to involve thinking about death and guilt. This can seem depressing and desolating from the point of view of an atheist. Can you imagine an atheist child being exposed to such a desolating way of seeing life? What happens when this child learns that there have been wars about such things as religions when the claim is that they are about tolerence? The child have rights to feel outright disoriented (guess what: I have been such a child).

Fortunately, one people I know is very positive in their life (the most by far) and also happens to be a believer, and most people (including believers) I know are fine people and against wars, so I understand that believers do not have to approach religions like this.

Anyway, though your example is insightful and enlightening, you could have made your point with a way better example. Or your point was the wrong one.

[xupybd]

Perhaps the original post was not saying atheists are monsters but to encounter a massive challenge to their world view at a young age, may disrupt the comfort of children? Children are wrapped in the bubble of comfort by the boundaries they're raised in. When you mature you question those boundaries and find your own way in the world. But during your early years you may lack the maturity to challenge the foundation of your world view. Being exposed to other ways of thinking may lead to anxiety. It's only a recent thing that people have been so easily exposed to ideas from outside of the creed they were raised in.

But I don't really know, just playing the devils advocate.

[abusoufiyan]

>Let's not make atheists look like evil people who make children depressed. This is not OK.

That's not what he's doing at all.

But it is also true that religion is largely the underpinning of morality for most people in the world and early exposure to the idea that morality is relative and malleable and that actually the only real motivator is self-preservation is probably unhealthy for adolescents.

>Solving my problems actually seems to be the solution to my happiness, not to believe or have faith in anything. On the other side, a big part of many religions seems to involve thinking about death and guilt

A big part of religions is also charity work and the idea that you aren't just doing things for yourself or solving your own problems but solving the problems of others because they are your equals (at least in Abrahamic traditions, I am familiar with these).

I don't see where you can pull that out of atheism.

>What happens when this child learns that there have been wars about such things as religions when the claim is that they are about tolerence?

What a silly thing to say. Religions would not need to preach tolerance if mankind were inherently tolerant, no? If mankind is not inherently tolerant, why will a child be shaken to understand that that inherent intolerance causes wars over nearly everything (from religion to culture to language to land).

[watwut]

> the idea that you aren't just doing things for yourself or solving your own problems but solving the problems of others because they are your equals

Equality really really does not describe views of hardcore christians I personally know nor the content of sermons I personally heard not christian journals articles I read.

Nor does tolerance, no matter how you define tolerance.

[abusoufiyan]

I am not a Christian but I grew up around very faithful Christians and my experiences are not the same as yours. Just to put that out there. Many of the devout Christians I knew took actions to rectify the wrongs around them that people would be awed by.

[throwaway2801]

Parts of my problems are others problems, that is not mutually exclusive.

Actually, one could argue that at the end of the day, any action is egoist at some level, even charity (my experience is that this argument leads to interesting discussions were people try to define things).

Also, I know that religion is linked to charity, but I don't see why would one need religion to help other people. I'm doing it pretty often actually, at my level.

Why should I need faith in anything to help someone? How an atheist would be unable to help anybody?

So,

> I don't see where you can pull that out of atheism.

I would say that beliefs (atheism is a form of belief, for some definition of atheism) and helping people are orthogonal notions. As an agnostic, linking those things feel absurd (in the mathematical definition of absurd, not in the definition of "stupid").

P.S.: I don't feel I said anything stupid. Let's use real arguments. If you think I said something wrong, feel free to argue about it. I'll be glad to recognize that I was wrong or to further argue.

Edit: I would say that one acts according to what drives their life. This can be faith. Or something else. Or a mix of things.

[abusoufiyan]

>As an agnostic, linking those things feel absurd (in the mathematical definition of absurd, not in the definition of "stupid").

It's hard for me to reply to this because I just have a hard time understanding what you are talking about. What is the mathematical definition of absurd? What is an "egoist" action.

All I was able to really understand was that you don't see why you need religion to help people. You don't. But every religious person can be reprimainded for not helping people because it is a religious tenet of nearly every major faith to help others as they are your equals under God. Every atheist cannot be taught to help others in this way.

In essence, an atheist can be good if they choose to be. A religious person is specifically being told to be good.

[darkstar999]

I think you're taking it the wrong way. Perhaps they feel hopeless and desolate because they are stuck in the religious group after learning about other things.

[throwaway2801]

(edit: I read your answer again. It made me smile. Original text:)

Maybe you are right, and xupybd too. This is why I still think my parent had an interesting and insightful answer. I actually wanted to understand that this way, but was put off by the "at such a tender age". This does not look neutral to me. "at this stage of life" or "at this young age" would not have triggered this in me.

Unfortunately, written text is not sufficiently precise for this kind of things.

I'm biased though. I happen to have met (independently) two people last year who were sorry for me and wanted to make me believe in God (which is okay. When you have convictions, you may want to make people adopt your convictions - but they didn't seem to understand my point of view). I also went to the US and met people there who were seeing atheists as extremists and intolerent people (I was ok for them though, because I am agnostic - so for them, I consider the existence of God).

[xupybd]

Just to add some potential insight. One of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity is that all people are in trouble/broken/sinners/in need of saving. So when you say they feel sorry for you that is actually part of the belief system. Even if you think you're okay they do not. It's not a matter of you being successful or not, but your moral standing before God.

So regardless of your point of view they're always going to act like you need fixing/saving.

That said they may well have not understood your point of view.

[throwaway2801]

Thank you for your definitely insightful answer. Yes, now that you say it, they both tried to save me for these reasons. This makes sense. I guess there is no way such a person and I can really agree on this.

Though this is positive for me: they tried to save me because they liked me. I guess.

Unfortunately, it seems like I'm doomed. I cannot imagine that God (if exists) made us broken by default, defective by design. Why would Him, since he is good?

This is kind of depressing when you think about it and this is the opposite of what I think about humanity: I think most people are fine by default (even though I've already been assaulted).

[xupybd]

I think you've identified one of the hardest intellectual problems for believers the problem of evil. If a perfect God exist that created everything how is there evil? It's one of the more difficult ideas to wrestle with. Far deeper than most of the arguments most people make against the existence of God. I'm a Christian myself but I've not come up with a satisfactory answer for me.

I think there is some merit in this argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga%27s_free_will_...

But as I say I've not come up with a satisfactory answer for myself.

It is a very interesting problem to think about it. Can a perfect God create a cosmos where evil exists.