[randomdata]

> Workers used to do better when a larger percentage of them collectively bargained.

What I find interesting is that the unionization rate in Canada today is more or less on-par with the peak unionization in the USA, and is one of the strongest unionized countries in the world. Yet, I constantly hear Canadian workers complain about how they are unfairly compensated compared to Americans, where unionization has practically disappeared, doing the same job.

Most Canadians I talk to seem to think that labour declined in the late 70s-early 80s, which is actually when Canadian unionization was at its peak. However, those are the years we really started to see union decline in the USA. American workers could understandably make that claim. Canadian workers shouldn't. Those should have been the best years for labour ever, based on union strength.

Is this entirely grass is greener syndrome? Canadians do tend to focus on American media more than their own, and the decline of unionization in the USA may have led them to believe that the decline also applied to Canada. Or are their points valid and higher unionization doesn't bring the effects we like to think it does?

[ahartmetz]

In Germany, there are very well paid mostly manual labor jobs in unionized industries, especially at the big car manufacturers. In non-unionized industries, wages can be much lower, down to about 30% of what workers in the car industry earn. That is before taxes, though. After taxes, the difference is about 2:1.

There is also data showing that unionized workers get about 1% more of a scheduled raise each year.

[randomdata]

I think it is well understood in economic theory that when you can prevent competition in the marketplace, you can charge significantly more for for your product/service. After all, if the people making 1/3 the amount the union workers were making were allowed to take the jobs in the auto industry, they would. Who wouldn't want to triple their income by simply changing employers?

However, I'm not sure that is the same as the "rising tide lifting all boats" that we're discussing here. The results seen in your example are limited to the lucky handful who have gained market protectionism from the rest of the people in the industry.

[xg15]

> I think it is well understood in economic theory that when you can prevent competition in the marketplace, you can charge significantly more for for your product/service.

Well yes, that's how unions work. What kind of bargaining power would they have otherwise?

> After all, if the people making 1/3 the amount the union workers were making were allowed to take the jobs in the auto industry, they would. Who wouldn't want to triple their income by simply changing employers?

What keeps them from joining the union and then taking the jobs?

[flukus]

> Yet, I constantly hear Canadian workers complain about how they are unfairly compensated compared to Americans, where unionization has practically disappeared, doing the same job.

Sure you're comparing like for like? For people on the high end like software devs you can definitely get paid more in the US, but in most of the developed world no one serving fries is crying out for US wages. It's the latter that are more likely to be unionized.

[gerbilly]

>Yet, I constantly hear Canadian workers complain about how they are unfairly compensated compared to

You have to look at total compensation.

We don't go bankrupt in Canada from medical bills.

[adamsea]

It would be helpful, to really dig into this, if we could look at a survey or study, as opposed to hearsay.

[randomdata]

Aside from opinion, the numbers from the government of Canada show that incomes were stagnant by the early 70s (which roughly corresponds with income stagnation seen in the US). This is again when unionization started to decline in the US, which could reasonably attributed to the decline of unionization. However, Canada saw strengthening unionization in the same period (peaking in the mid-80s). Based on what people claim unions accomplish, income stagnation is unexpected given how strong the unions were during that time.

[afarrell]

Is this across industries? Or specific to software engineering?

[acover]

Is it possible to show causation?