[mieseratte]

> The west only has freedom on paper.

Let me know when they start black-bagging dissidents for speaking up a bit too much.

There are festering problems regarding surveillance in the West, and the prison system is a bit much here in the US, but "freedom on paper" is a load of BS.

[jazzyk]

>"freedom on paper" is a load of BS

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....”

- Noam Chomsky

[mieseratte]

Right, we don't have absolute freedom in an absolutist sense. You're technically correct, the best kind, but I wasn't suggesting we had it either.

[linkmotif]

Says Noam Chomsky, who in China, Russia or the Arab world would have disappeared.

[kiliantics]

You can only truly believe this if you have never been an open and active supporter of non-conforming (and threatening to status quo) beliefs or are not black/brown. McCarthyism and antiblackness are still very much built into the functioning system of western nation states.

[mieseratte]

> You can only truly believe this if you have never been an open and active supporter of non-conforming (and threatening to status quo) beliefs or are not black/brown.

I've been rail-roaded by vindictive government officials who abused their power. Been arrested for it, even. I know what it means to have my first amendment rights violated at a fundamental level.

> McCarthyism and antiblackness are still very much built into the functioning system of western nation states.

That's, like, your opinion man.

Highlighting select abuses of power doesn't negate the fact that I can openly criticize our government, advocate for change, run for office, and store enough small arms to organize an insurrection without fear of reprisal. We may not have absolute freedom, but no one does and no one ever will. In the context of the conversation, we have a helluva lot of freedom. Much more than the comment I responded to appeared to suggest - that we're no better than China.

[kiliantics]

Again, if you're white. Any time black people have organised and advocated for change and especially if they tried to "store enough small arms to organize an insurrection" they were murdered or locked up for life. Look up the MOVE bombing, black panthers, and basically any radical black nationalist group.

So it's not really just my opinion, man. It's demonstrable historical fact. It's just swept under the rug and shouted over with jingoism and other propaganda about how much freedom we enjoy.

[mieseratte]

> they were murdered or locked up for life. Look up the MOVE bombing, black panthers, and basically any radical black nationalist group.

Well, that's what happens when you engage in crime, violently resist, and engage in the actual act of insurrection ;)

As it were, the Blacks are not the only ethnicity that have ethnic separatist movements that have been violently squashed, or did you forget the militia movements and subsequent Federal suppressions of the 90s? I suppose that might hurt your narrative, however.