[pjc50]

The whole setup is stupid, due to a chain of constitutional oddities. There's no distinction between budget votes and other kinds of votes. Most other systems, Westminster-style or otherwise, have a process which results in either a budget being passed or a fresh election being held which should result in a majority capable of passing one.

The US system has elevated a denial of service attack (filibuster) to the status of important democratic ritual. This doesn't help either.

("Funding continues as-is" may be rendered impossible by external factors, as in the Greek budget crisis.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_of_supply

[kasey_junk]

To be fair, the US system does have a special class of vote for budgetary issues that defangs the filibuster:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_State...

[mikeash]

Yep, and the majority party decided to waste their chance on unpopular tax cuts rather than use it to keep the lights on.

[ars]

The tax cuts are actually very popular. And I don't think anyone expected the Democrats to actually shut down the government over illegal immigrants.

[kasey_junk]

It is impossible for this not to be a political topic and I probably shouldn’t be even discussing it here, but whatever.

What would be the reasonable thing for the democrats to do right now? They weren’t allowed to see the tax bill. That’s what happens when something has the 51 republicans and it can’t be filibustered in the current environment.

Further, the republicans haven’t even brought a bill forward to be filibustered likely because they don’t have the votes in their own party.

I’m fairly centrist for this site but the republicans controlling every part of the government as well as already using their reconciliation power and blaming the democrats is so shockingly perverse in its cinycism. That’s before you even take into account the duplicity on DACA that has broad bipartisan support up to a meeting with the president last week.

Neither morally or strategically should the democrats budge on this.

[ars]

Except they are hurting tons of people in the US in exchange for strategy. That's simply not right.

And of all issues DACA? It's important to some people, but as a national topic it's pretty minor.

> What would be the reasonable thing for the democrats to do right now?

Realize they are weak and accept it. Then take the offer they were given and do the best they can. But don't hurt unrelated people in the US to try to increase their own strength.

That's a pretty selfish thing to do after all.

[tptacek]

As a national issue, deporting people who should by rights be citizens and have known no other country than ours, many of whom are parents of actual American citizens, children, citizens, who might not even know Spanish, that's a minor issue?

[alkonaut]

The 51 seat party should simply out forward a bill that can be accepted by 60 seats. If they fail, they should take 100% responsibility. Republicans have to concede that those last 9 seats are democrat seats and the power of those seats is (perhaps unfairly) almost as big as the 51 first seats, but the responsibility still lies with the majority to govern.

[FireBeyond]

Oh, just cave in, and be walked all over?

Not that you're being biased, at all.

You know, like I'm sure you wanted the Republicans to do under Cruz in 2013?

Shame on the Democrats for opposing the Republican party, as the Republican party did the last eight years. They should just "realize they're weak and accept it [and do what they're told]".

The sad thing about this is that you most likely you think your perspective is eminently objective and unbiased.

[mikeash]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gop-tax-cuts-are-ev...

[ars]

I personally, was totally against the tax cut after reading about it in the media.

Then it actually passed and the media (yup, that same media) put out some calculators. I played with those, and realized I was seriously mislead.

Wait another month, when people will get higher paychecks, and see if it's still unpopular.

I really wish the media would stop telling me how to think. Just tell me what happened. Leave out the reactions, and quotes from "other people" telling me what I should think about a topic.

Best I can do right now is read opposing media outlets and contrast them, but it's hard to do.

[mikeash]

You seem to be arguing about whether or not the tax cut should be popular, which is completely different.