[Clubber]

>Besides half of Europe wanted to be socialist -- and I'm speaking of the support for such parties in Western Europe.

There's a big, big difference between wanting to be socialist and living under a Soviet regime.

It is US business because if Europe was overrun by Soviets, the US would have to get involved, if not for their own interests, certainly the interests of the now subjugated Europe. It's also a hell of a lot harder fighting with your back to the ocean. I mean we are talking the exact same scenario that happened in 1914 and 1939, except instead of Germany, it would have been the USSR. The Eastern Bloc countries revolted for a reason.

Not only that, the victors of WWII wanted the US military there for that very reason.

>Again, not the business of a foreign power to meddle.

It sure was welcomed in 1917 and 1941.

[coldtea]

>It is US business because if Europe was overrun by Soviets, the US would have to get involved, if not for their own interests, certainly the interests of the now subjugated Europe.

So, it would have been equally OK for other nations to invade the US in the interests of the black slaves, the native Americans, the other peoples all over the world it harmed, etc?

>It sure was welcomed in 1917 and 1941.

You'd be surprised. That's how Americans tell it themselves, and also how, via Hollywood, they taught modern historically illiterate people to see it.

In surveys and polls the decades just after WWII, when the thing was still fresh in memory, most Europeans placed the biggest role in defeating Nazi Germany with USSR, not the US.

  In 1945, most French people thought that the Soviet Union 
  deserved the most credit for Nazi Germany's defeat in World 
  War II — even though the Soviets didn't play much of a role 
  in France's liberation, relative to the US and Britain. By 
  1995 and 2004, however, the French had changed their minds, 
  and were crediting the US as the biggest contributor to 
  victory in Europe (...)

https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year...

  Scholar addresses question, ‘Who won World War II in 
  Europe?’

  There’s no easy answer, said Norman Davies, an Oxford-
  educated British historian and Poland specialist who has 
  written widely on the 1939-1945 conflict.

  (...)

  Among the Davies so-called myths:

  That D-Day was big and decisive. (About 80 percent of 
  German forces were lost on the Eastern Front, he said, 
  where the biggest battles raged.)

  That the West triumphed over the Third Reich. (Germany was 
  all but defeated by the Soviets well before the Allies 
  landed troops on the continent, he contended.)

  In fact, asserted Davies, it was the Red Army that played 
  the decisive role in defeating Germany, “and they were in 
  the service of an evil tyranny.”

  Sheer numbers alone help dispel myths about the war, he 
  said. In 1939, the United States had half as many trained 
  soldiers as Poland — and it took until 1944 to muster 100 
  American divisions. The Germans fielded 230 divisions, and 
  the Soviets as many as 400.

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2007/09/scholar-addres...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/the-soviet-union-hel...

[Clubber]

>So, it would have been equally OK for other nations to invade the US in the interests of the black slaves, the native Americans, the other peoples all over the world it harmed, etc?

Depends on how you look at it, the North certainly invaded an independent CSA (the South) over slavery as most of the war was fought in the South. Obviously the North thought it was ok and the South didn't. Also, the UK nearly join the war on the side of the South. "OK" is such a simple term, I think we are having completely different levels of discussion.

>You'd be surprised. That's how Americans tell it themselves, and also how, via Hollywood, they taught modern historically illiterate people to see it. In surveys and polls the decades just after WWII, when the thing was still fresh in memory, most Europeans placed the biggest role in defeating Nazi Germany with USSR, not the US.

So my statement was Europe wanted the US to enter the war (which they most certainly did.) You are arguing that the USSR was the most responsible for defeating Nazi Germany. Do you see how those are two different things? I know you want to win the argument, but at least counter argue what I'm arguing.

FWIW, I agree that the USSR was the single most important factor in defeating Nazi Germany. Russia was also was one of the factors of the rise since they signed the Soviet-German non-aggression pact, then both Germany and Russia invaded Eastern Europe. Oops.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-08-21/pact-between-hitler-a...