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by bitcoinusername 3085 days ago
There's no need to define boundaries that give rise to bazillion exceptions.

Nihilism isn't the ultimate end.

I'd say that if you can choose between eating a fruit, and killing a bird and eating it's flesh, a virtuous agent would eat the fruit.

It's unnecessary to go the utilitarian way of trying to draw the lines and meet every single exception to the rule.

Acting in the world as a virtuous agent is a much more practical approach.

Would you test and experiment on someone who has a nervous system capable of feeling pain and suffering, if it could save thousands or even millions of people? Given the data of the lack of success of a huge percentage of studies, you would, being virtuous, deduce that it's better to seek other means of testing instead of doing a hit and miss approach on animals.

People don't behave as virtuous agents, and they do not act kindly. Especially not to those they deem less worthy than them.

That's why stuff needs rethinking and regulation.

3 comments

Where is it enshrined as truth that being virtuous (by the implied definition above) is important or even desirable as a trait in a species?
Discussion about metaethics can go to infinity, you might not agree with what I find virtuous and we can discuss infinitely of why the things we will be talking about are important.

I'm pretty sure virtue ethics is as practical as you can get and still stay in the realm of philosophy.

Virtue ethics is there to give you guidance of which questions to pose and how to act when coming up with the answers.

There's no need to delve on the metaethics of a particular case.

This is the crux of the issue. What makes one moral framework "virtuous" and one not? It could be considered virtuous to ensure the dominance of the most competitive species (us in this case).

Even if one, for the most part, cares for the world around them, is it virtuous to attempt to ensure the survival of a species like the panda? As a species it would vanish without any outside intervention.

Considering humans the most competitive species is also something that could be called into question. We certainly think we're special, but we're probably falling into Dunning-Kruger territory.

I think the only obvious route is to treat other living things the way we would like to be treated - after all, we have a common ancestry and a case could be made that we're just one big multicellular organism

I do buy the golden rule as the only unarguably reasonable philosophical principle (I hold it pretty highly as an essential combination of rationality and empathy), I'm just arguing for the sake of it.

The reason I consider humans the most competitive is because we could potentially wipe out any form of life (for some, we would have to go too). As for the special thing, I don't think we're special in the sense that we have some innate quality that separates us from other animals, we're just more intelligent. Some unknown gap between the smartest animals and us results in the situation we see today: humans have created technology and industry, pursued math and science. No other species has, as far as I know (or at least not to a degree that makes it significant relative to human understanding)

This is all hyperbole. From the egoistic perspective, live is just a figment of imagination, there is no other, just ego. This might sound like a matter of semantics, but it reminds me of this: Virtue is mainly a question of how to treat oneself.
> People don't behave as virtuous agents, and they do not act kindly. Especially not to those they deem less worthy than them.

> That's why stuff needs rethinking and regulation.

I assume the regulation will be done by the angels, as people do not behave as virtuous agents.

> a virtuous agent would eat the fruit.

For your subjective idea of virtue.

Of course, but almost everyone asking questions and acting on the answers, in the framework of virtue ethics, would do it.

It's the pragmatist philosophy.

What would an ethical person in this framework do with pets that can't be vegan (ex: cats)?