[DoreenMichele]

The US is on a very short list of countries that do not provide maternity leave and iirc it is the only country on that list that does not have the excuse that we are too poor and underdeveloped to afford it. We could start with just providing maternity leave as a small step forward here. It is a well proven model with lots of examples out there and not terribly open to abuse because you have to have a baby to get it.

I would be fine if we provided parental leave for both parents when a child is born. But I would be happy with just bringing the US into the 21st century and getting on the same page as basically the rest of the planet and just starting with maternity leave. I only mention parental leave because if I don't, you can guarantee someone will accuse me of something nefarious for not explicitly stating that.

[new299]

I agree that parental leave is valuable (though I'd love to see data supporting this if you have it).

But it seems like a very different issues that increasing health care outcomes in general.

[DoreenMichele]

Well, color me speechless. I don't think we have anything further to discuss.

[new299]

Your arguments don't seem to be backed by data, or any kind of objective logical reasoning. So I would agree.

[DoreenMichele]

That's a personal attack. I am saying your mental models of life are so far from mine, I can't see effective communication happening. I cannot fathom saying that allowing a woman recovery time to take care of herself and time to take care of a newborn is not pertinent to general health. If that is what you think, I just don't even know how to cross the chasm between your mental models and mine.

The gratuitous personal attack only deepens the problem.

[new299]

Parental leave suggests leave for more than just the mother and is in fact what you explicitly said "provided parental leave for both parents when a child is born".

Which seems valuable for many reasons. But I would be interested in seeing data which supports that this results in better health outcomes for mother and child. However, I'm not sure this specific case tells us much about the general case of patients (you cited CF) being cared for by friends or family members...

You're not backing up your statements with data, and not making a reasoned objective [1] logical argument... people do that all the time of course. But it doesn't really help advance a discussion or change anything. It's probably why you've ran into issues getting your point across in general.

[1] You might feel you have sufficient subjective reasons to believe what you state. But it doesn't help convince others, for that objective proof is required.

[DoreenMichele]

You are cherry picking. I said I would like the US to have maternity leave. Then added that I would be for parental leave, not just maternity leave, to defend in advance against bs accusations that are routinely hurled at me that I am saying something sexist or transphobic or some other nonsense.

Accusing me of being at fault for catching a lot of flak while posting as openly female on an overwhelmingly male forum is, at best, clueless. I have a handle on the leaderboard that I recently retired. I appear to be the only woman to ever have had a handle on the leaderboard. This is objective evidence that my performance here is vastly better than that of most women. So, no, it probably isn't some personal deficiency causing my difficulties.