[goalieca]

> So why does it feel like the world is in decline

Because our environment is on the decline. Our oceans are full of plastic, our forests are converted to farmland for cattle, pollution from electronics is rising, and our global climate is changing for the worse.

Even optimistic areas like health care are being confounded by obesity and malnutrition. It’s great that global health care and poverty rates are improving. But in some of our own countries things are getting worse. There’s a growing income inequality and an obesity epidemic. My generation may be the first in a while to have a lower life expectancy than my parents’. Many of my friends are feeling hopeless because their university degrees are buying them 20 hours a week at minimum wage (which has not adjusted for inflation too well) while the cost of housing sky rockets.

[skybrian]

On the other hand, by most measures, pollution in the US hit a low in the 60's and has greatly improved since then. It's even improved quite a bit since 1990 [1]. Even CO2 emissions are on the decline since 2008. (Not nearly enough, but still.)

In the Eastern US the low point for forest cover was in 1872 [2]. In the western US a major problem is too much ground cover resulting in worse forest fires. (Which is not to say that forests are healthy - the pine beetle epidemic is devastating.)

I'm not going to say things are great, but whether they're better or worse depends on where you look and what you compare against.

[1] https://gispub.epa.gov/air/trendsreport/2017/#air_pollution

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_in_the_United_...

[faitswulff]

Health care is also confounded by climate change and global warming as flu season strikes earlier and more viciously: https://globalbiodefense.com/2013/01/31/global-warming-and-t...

Just like starfish are being laid low by a virus normally kept at bay by lower ocean temperatures (https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/scient...), I expect there to be higher rates of unexpected disease in human populations as well.

[johnwheeler]

Yet, you write this on a Computer, which wouldnt be possible without those fossil fuels that pushed us through the industrial revolution and onto the technical revolution and gave us those plastics.

I think it’s crazy to assume we won’t find answers to the problems you bring up and take a sky is falling attitude when you look at the track record of human progress. Even though your friends are struggling to find jobs, they’re likely living better than John D. Rockefeller did. Doesn’t excuse the problem, but don’t take these things for granted.

[dang]

Many of your comments in this thread have broken the HN guidelines by being flamebait or outright flamewar. It's one thing to express a considered point of view and another to get into ideological mud wrestling. Please don't post like this again.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: it looks from your recent history like you've primarily been using HN for ideological battle. That destroys what this site is supposed to be for, so we ban accounts that do it. Please don't do it. That is also in the site guidelines.

[johnwheeler]

My comment is in line with the Bill Gates article and wasn’t meant to incite the response it got. Bill Gates wasn't trolling when he wrote the article and neither was I. The fact that the post and my comment got flagged says something about HN ideology and/or me expressing myself poorly.

The crux of the article was that people, the media, etc always focus on things getting worse while the data shows they’re getting better. I agree with that. In the future, I will be more careful in expressing myself so as not to arouse resentment. I’ll also stop posting about BTC.

[tomhoward]

they’re likely living better than John D. Rockefeller did

This may be true in material terms but it assumes that material wellbeing is all that counts.

The reason this comment triggered such a strong reaction is that it dismisses the emotional distress that goes along with being at the bottom of the socioeconomic pile.

Factors like student debt, medical costs and the general costs of living in many places put many people into profound distress, that can turn into unbearable chronic misery, for which air conditioning seems like small consolation.

I agree with your overall point, and I am one of those that is able to take an optimistic view of the future and trust that problems that seem like existential threats now can be resolved in time.

But I'd urge you to be sensitive enough to anticipate the kinds of reactions you'll trigger when you make a claim like this, even if it's true by the narrow definition you've chosen.

[johnwheeler]

Sure, I can appreciate how insensitive that sounded. It was a bad way to come off and that truly wasn’t my intention.

[chickenfries]

I would really like to see you say that with a straight face to someone stuck in a minimum wage jobs who can’t afford healthcare. Seriously. This optimism about the long term does nothing for someone who is suffering in the short and medium term.

That comparison to Rockafeller is nonsense. Go ask someone working at McDonald’s if they’d trade places with one of the richest men ever.

[johnwheeler]

Health insurance, minimum wages, fast food even... This is but a sampling of the human progress I mentioned parsed out of a single misguided post you made. There are people in the world far worse off than your friend making minimum wage.

You take these things for granted because you live in a rich enough society that enables you to do so.

[chickenfries]

You really assume too much about me. I'm one generation removed from 3rd world farmers.

You're convinced that anyone who has a problem with their standard of living in America has no perspective, when really you're the one who can't see the perspective of the lower class of someone living in one of the richest countries in the world. Seriously, you're making these arguments on the internet, on a forum where everyone is presumed to be working in technology and therefore not starving, how about you go volunteer at a shelter in your city like I do and tell those people "cheer up! I bet you wouldn't want to switch places with John Rockefeller!"

I know you won't though.

[ABCLAW]

>they’re likely living better than John D. Rockefeller did

When you make absurd conclusions, you should examine your premises.

[johnwheeler]

On a material basis, not absurd at all. I mean, air conditioning is pretty damn amazing as is electric power (which was non existant for much of Rockefeller’s life). The Haber process for nitrogen based fertilizer, the list goes on and on.

[ABCLAW]

It is absurd. Obscenely absurd.

Rockefeller could literally pay an army of people to fan him with palm leaves, make sorbet from the ol' ice house and make him fresh iced tea as he walked around town if he wanted.

What the fuck does Rockefeller care if the carrying capacity of agricultural land increases due to the Haber process if his personal consumption would remain the five-star best-in-class ingredients for every meal he ever has if he so chooses. He doesn't care about the mean's position. He is the tail.

The existence of air conditioning and the Haber process doesn't make the life of the working poor better than his.

[vinhboy]

----------

[GuiA]

Trump got 62,979,636 votes. That's 46% of voters, but 24% of the population eligible to vote (and 20% of the total population).

[krapp]

No, less than a third of eligible voters voted for the racist con-man. The majority of Americans voted against him or not at all.

Not that that actually matters.

[trevyn]

You sound unhappy, which is confusing to me, because you just listed a bunch of great challenges to work on.

Working on challenges tends to remove feelings of hopelessness.

[chickenfries]

Would you say this to someone who told you they had cancer? Or lost their job?

“I‘m surprised your not happy about hardship?”

Do you actually look at something like obesity, or addiction and say “ah, what a great PROBLEM to work on.”