[Spooky23]

That’s a really one dimensional analysis. Real estate has been and remains one of the major drivers of economic activity.

The stuff you are upset about is just the downside of increased productivity and consolidation. The only reason you have the wacky real estate costs in certain places is that the money people have concentrated in a few places. Their convenience is more meaningful than the inflated salaries required to support housing that’s 10x the national average.

People have a fundamental drive to improve their home to enhance its value but also be more pleasant and suited to their wants and desires. That drives everything from home improvements to furniture to art.

This ideal of a higher density residential society with lots of landlords that is popular on HN right now is a terrible future. Landlords want one thing — maximum return on assets. That means high cost, minimum possible opex.

[rifung]

> This ideal of a higher density residential society with lots of landlords that is popular on HN right now is a terrible future. Landlords want one thing — maximum return on assets. That means high cost, minimum possible opex.

How is that different from what homeowners want? Don't homeowners already block legislation that would allow higher density units to be built because it would decrease the value of their homes?

At least in the Seattle area where there are many high rise apartments and a lot of competition, companies seem to have to invest in making their apartments nice.

[Spooky23]

I fight against medium density development in my city because they are assessed by a different standard and my property tax burden is like 10x the developer. The development drives costs for school services and I get to pay.

[rifung]

> my property tax burden is like 10x the developer

Care to elaborate? Why would that be the case?

[Spooky23]

Valuation is based on net income, which is easy to game.

Also, most new development in my area is getting partial 10 year tax abatements. So the owners get to undercut the rents, which drives more of the traditional 2-4 family houses to lower rents and less maintenance, and eventually to section-8, which is the price floor.

So I get to pay more property tax, I get to pay for tax abatements via sales taxes, and we get to enjoy more traffic and a decline in the maintenance of legacy housing stock.

[ensignavenger]

I'm not sure what the situation is for the OP, but in some areas, local governments give tax subsidies to developers. I like development, but I don't like tax subsidies for developers.

[zanny]

Density alone does not imply landlords, though. It is a very business centric view of housing to have density imply rent. In a simlar vein to how I wish more people would even talk about business cooperatives you can have a residential building that is also managed in a cooperative of its tenants. Such arrangements share swathes of the issues more general cooperative businesses have (like how nigh-impossible it is to start one) but there really are not only two roads out of the development hell we are in right now, where one leads to self determination where everyone is a property owner of a factory minted mcmansion with a standard slab of astroturf while the planet desertifies into an inhospitable fireball or everyone is subservient to tyrannical money hungry landlords in cramped conditions with rationed electricity and water access.

[Spooky23]

High density is interpreted by society as an inferior product, and there is no business model for coops at scale.

End of the day, only bigger players have access to capital without that federal subsidy.

[pwthornton]

Anything less than higher density in more areas is a catastrophic future for all of us. Sprawl is driving climate change. Sprawl hurts environmental air quality. Sprawl hurts health with long commutes and a lack of walking and exercise.

[valuearb]

Sprawl only has a minor effect in all of those, and has many positive effects. My kids play in s 1/3 acre yard all day. for example.

[tmnvix]

Can they walk to visit friends, the local shops, park, school, library, etc? All of these things were much more important to me as a child than a big backyard.

[Spooky23]

I live in a 1800 ft^2 single family home on a 50x140 lot in a city. Our block is 50% single family, 50% 2-4 Family. We walk to school, library and grocery.

Because of the developer incentives, there is no incentive to build old neighborhoods like mine. 5-6 story sticks on bricks crappy apartments, or McMansions on cul de sacs rule the day.

When I looked at building a home, you can see why. It’s very difficult to build a 1700-2500 ft^2 home unless you go prefabricated, have cash, or can do the finish work yourself. The financing only works for real big or real small.

[valuearb]

Yes, but usually ride their bikes. My town has 20+ miles of bike paths connecting the main parks/golf courses.