[onan_barbarian]

So... the big factor muddying the waters for AA is that it is, in many cases a state-sanctioned option where "anonymous" behavior modification (have you checked in with your sponsor?) takes on the force of law. It's possible to have a substantial variation in your treatment by the courts as a result of whether heavily AA-associated folks around you say that you are getting with the program or whether you are still in 'denial' (it's not just a river in Egypt, fnarr fnarr). I have met people whose continued freedom as non-violators of probation or parole more or less depends on the say-so of various quasi-governmental types as to whether they are paying lip service to Bill Wilson.

I'm going to say that I'm fine with the idea that if people find the rooms work for them, great. However, the idea that a program that doesn't show any real statistical effectiveness as compared to secular programs should be adopted by the state is creepy and weird and fucked up, and no amount of bullshit dodges ("your higher power can be a cat, or a doorknob") makes this less fucked up.

[ilovetux]

I agree, I do not like the idea of mandating a twelve step program in a legal setting. It actually makes the rooms a little more hostile, but it is accepted because maybe one of the people ordered to attend might be willing and ready to take part in recovery and it would be a shame for that person to miss out.

I was ordered to attend, but luckily it was after a long time being in the rooms willingly.