[wernercd]

Because the government should be trusted with that infrastructure/information and they won't become a bloated, red-tape laden mess?

I think the majority of people agrees there needs to be changes in things... but putting "government" in charge of the backbone of the internet? Would definitely not a change for the better.

Personally... I think there should be one of two rules: Companies can't own content AND infrastructure (IE: Comcast)... or a higher cost (taxes? fees?) for companies that do and/or don't have reasonable competition.

[chrisper]

Here in Switzerland the fiber is owned by the regional utility company (power company for example). I think by law they have to allow every ISP to use it.

Now everyone (or almost everyone) in Switzerland can have fiber internet with gbit up and down.

[rayiner]

About 30% of households in Switzerland have access to fiber, versus 25% in the US. Switzerland doesn’t impose unbundling on fiber. The major fiber operator, Swisscom, owns its own lines.

[chrisper]

Looking here: https://www.bakom.admin.ch/bakom/en/homepage/telecommunicati...

It seems Swisscom owns some lines, but not all of it. Like some of Swisscom Internet goes on lines that is not owned by them.

I guess a lot of the households in the mountains and other large terrains do not have fiber.

If you look here: https://map.geo.admin.ch/?topic=nga&mobile=false&lang=en&bgL...

Plenty of households have >=100 Mbit/s Internet. This map pretty much covers the same area as "where most Swiss people live."

[rayiner]

85% of Americans can also get 100 Mbps. It sounds like you might be in some place like Zurich, where the local power company deployed fiber and allows ISP to provide services over it. That’s a good model, but it’s not legally required. For the most part, Swiss telecom regulation is very similar to that in the United States.

[chrisper]

Do 85% of Americans actually get symmetric 100 Mbps?

[rayiner]

Most 100 Mbps service in the US is cable, so asymmetric. But I think fiber is the only widely deployed technology that can give you 100 Mbps symmetric. Fiber coverage in Switzerland is about 30%: https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/document.cfm?doc_id=47090 (see page 30). So if most households can get 100 Mbps, it’s probably not symmetric, but asymmetric VDSL2 or cable.

[orf]

And how much would that 100mbit cost on average in America? Paying about $35 for 100mbit fiber right now, with actual unlimited usage.

[rayiner]

Where are you? Swisscom charges $80/month for 100 Mbps symmetric fiber, which is a typical price for gigabit fiber in the US. https://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/internet-television-f.... Gigabit plus TV plus phone is about $140/month, which is the same as I pay for the same package here in Maryland. Comcast offers 100 down plus TV for $60/month here in MD.

[mitchty]

I pay about $110/month for 105, so... a lot.

[stephengillie]

Why do arguments like this continue to be made, despite many cities already having municipal broadband?

This anti-governmental prejudice is tiring. Governments are made of people - what makes you trust those people less than other people?

[wernercd]

Because, by and large, I don't trust people?

I love my country and for the most part trust the Government... but on the same token - you'd have to be blind not to see how inefficient they are compared to private organizations (IE: Post Office compared to FedEx. Private Hospitals compared to the VA.)

You'd also have to be blind to not see blatant growth and abuses of privileges. The ACA growing government meddling in healthcare. Snowden - and similar - releases showing abuses. Daily revelations about different groups abusing their privileges.

"Arguments like this" continue to be made because examples are PLENTIFUL of how inefficient, self serving and abusive large organizations get. The same can be said of Unions - which are great in some aspects... horrible in others.

[mikeash]

The Post Office will send a letter to the other side of the country for 49 cents. How much would that cost from FedEx? They’re pretty competitive for packages too.

[brohoolio]

Post office has a slightly different mission than fedex. The post office connects the entire country. Which means you’ll have losses in remote places. But the country as a whole benefits from having that infrastructure in place to be able to send a letter to everyone.

In terms of private hospitals you’ve obviously never had to pay a bill from them. They engineer the system to maximize profits, which is different than getting people out the door as efficiently as possible.

Large institutions like the post office / va have problems. I’d argue large companies often have similar problems. But the distinction between what problems these orgs are solving and what private companies are solving is a very important distinction.

[yardie]

I see someone has swallowed the right wing propaganda hook, line, and sinker. The VA treats vets in all sorts of conditions. Rich, homeless, retired, and recently discharged. Btw, all the bad news you hear from the VA, like Walter Reed, that comes from the privately contracted section of the hosipital. You know the guys who have a financial incentive to deliver the shittiest service contractual allowed.

[rayiner]

Because for the most part my internet works, while my subway catches on fire regularly?

[nate_meurer]

The anecdote is amusing, but not very relevant. My experience is exactly opposite: my Comcastic internet is shit, but I regularly ride my city-run light rail, and the trains are clean, well maintained, and always on time.

[orf]

Do your roads and teachers catch fire regularly as well?

[baldfat]

Government does many things well.

Protecting citizens freedoms, roads, airports and ports, education for all, social safety net (medicaid and social security), supplying fuel, CDC, protecting the environment, 911, policing, science and research funding.

[rayiner]

Not our government. We spend more on education per student than all OECD nation’s but Switzerland, and have middle of the pack results. Go to Japan or Germany and say we’re doing a good job with our roads. Our municipal governments are among the worst polluters—antiquated sewer systems dump immense amounts of untreated sewage into our waterways each year.

[baldfat]

Take out the Inner City Schools (Which gets 50% of the funding since it is property based funding) and US is one of the tops in the world. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/08/propert...

Massachusetts as a state would be in the top in the world right their with Finland, and that includes Boston http://blogs.wgbh.org/on-campus/2016/12/6/if-massachusetts-w...

Also our Universities are also the top educational system in the world. 7 of the top 10 Universities of the world are US institutions. https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankin...

PS Rant, Why is that Conservatives and Libertarians like to make things look worst in America and they consider themselves the only patriotic ones?

[rayiner]

Inner city schools do not get less of the funding. Property taxes only account for half of K-12 funding. Federal and state grants to inner city and rural schools account for the other half. Here in Maryland, for example, Baltimore spends about the same as Montgomery County, a wealthy DC suburb.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/03/12/in-2....

> When federal dollars are included, just five states are spending less in their poorest districts than in their wealthiest. Nationwide, the average disparity drops from 15 percent to less than 2 percent.

[baldfat]

> Inner city schools do not get less of the funding.

These are all based on the public records, please consider why you stated that the funding is equal? Federal funding for education has also been less and less.

http://www.openpagov.org/education_revenue_and_expenses.asp

(My city) Allentown SD per student = $13,949

(Next town over) Sailisbury SD per student = $21,519

(Highest in the state) Lower Merion SD per student = $28,495

Screen Shot of Data:

https://imgur.com/a/DMjl7

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/pa-high-court-revives-scho...

"Here is ti challenge this statistics: Data from the National Center for Education Statistics shows that high-poverty school districts spent 15.6 percent less than those in the group with the least poverty.

In Pennsylvania, that difference was 33 percent"

Federal Funding title 1 for Inner City Schools funding per student is quite low, averaging about $500 to $600 a year. 50% of public schools qualify for federal money and the 14 billion works out to much less than most people believe. It amounts to a 5% increase in funding for some schools.

https://www.brookings.edu/research/why-federal-spending-on-d...

Here is the Heritage Foundations paper on how Inner City racial groups get more money and so there is no unequal funding problem based on race. This is just crazy statistics gymnastics. http://www.heritage.org/education/report/the-myth-racial-dis...

My point is not race it is socioeconomic disparity at the school district level and Heritage wants to say school in districts favor the poorer schools. Poorer schools in School District isn't the problem it is school districts getting under funded.

Funding isn't the answer but why should my daughter or son have 9 gym classes a year (School doesn't have a gym, nor a library room, and certainly no art class room) She also gets 9 art classes and 9 Music classes a year.

They also don't get recess due to funding problems for monitors. My daughter in kindergarten got no recces from August till January. Though she had 2 hours of reading and 2 hours of math per day. http://www.macon.com/news/local/article28555831.html

[rayiner]

As you can see in the WaPo article I linked, Pennsylvania is a huge outlier. Nationwide, including state and federal funding, poor districts get only 1.7% less than rich districts. In many states, like Maryland where I live, poor districts receive slightly more funding.

[tomohawk]

Roads? Most roads in US are built with a coefficient of friction that is too low. The result? Many unnecessary deaths and accidents. The thing is, the governments don't build the roads - they fund the building of them. Then, they don't enforce the applicable standards to make sure they're built well. German government does much better at this. This comes down to competence.

Police? Baltimore is losing people left and right for decades now because they can't meet basic security needs. Again, this is basic competence.

Education? Are you kidding? Why is it that "good schools" is one of the top reasons to move to an area? It's because parents have little or no impact on schools and there's no accountability. If your local school is incompetent, then you can either move, homeschool, or somehow get your kids into private school. It's a disgrace.

[baldfat]

> Roads

Our Interstate System is what fueled out economy and is the main reason why our economy is the largest in the world. That was 100% Federally funded

> Police

Our crime rates are WAY Down over the past 40 years and probably is the lowest it has ever been. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/21/5-facts-abou...

Also my son gets pulled over for DWB (Driving While Black) about once a month. There are absolutely racist and abusive police but it is finally getting exposed.

> Education? Are you kidding?

Yes take out the cities andwe are top 10

[orf]

I'm sure the solution to a bad school is not helicopter parents blaming the teachers for their child's issues. The rest of your examples are pretty on point though

[amelius]

The internet was practically invented by government institutions. Companies turned it into a mess.

[wernercd]

Government regulation and abuse has no part in the mess?

To say "companies" have blame and "government" doesn't?

That's... interesting...

And Government may have helped get the ball rolling but they didn't get us to where we are today alone - and if they were the only ones in charge, we wouldn't be where we are today.