[amh]

I'm sure it had nothing to do with racking up an average of $10-20k in credit card debt and taking out highly leveraged mortgages with the assumption that ever-increasing real estate values would make up the difference.

Saving early is more important than saving a lot. That's the magic of compound interest.

Even during the recent recession, inflation has been very much under control. So I'm not sure what "stagnant wages" have to do with anything.

[joezydeco]

I'm sorry, how many raises have you had in the past five years?

Keep the personal debt out of the equation for now. The fact remains that while inflation is "under control", it's not zero. And the costs of other necessary things (esp energy and healthcare) have continued to rise well beyond the "under control" range.

[ahoyhere]

I'm sure that racking up $10-20k of credit card debt had nothing to do with the fact that there's no reliable social safety net, no affordable healthcare, cash prices for medical procedures (like a doctor looking at you for 5 minute) are sky-high, the cost of gas and food staples is redonkulous, and, oh yeah, no such thing as affordable public universities any more.

The people who got those ridiculous mortgages were snookered in a shell game. If a person can't trust his mortgage broker, who can he trust?

But, all that good financial education they got in school should have prepared them for that.

Wait, it didn't? NO WAY!

[amh]

I'll agree on one thing, there's a very strong need for kids and teens to get a better understanding of personal finance. Although it's probably a lot more effective coming from parents than from the state.

But I think you are giving the consumer way too much of a free pass for their own misbehavior. I'm not completely without sympathy for people who are honestly having a hard time paying for the essentials of life. But what about the people who finance a new car because a 10 year old used econo-box would be beneath them? The people who buy expensive packaged foods instead of cooking from cheaper raw ingredients? People who have a satellite dish on their doublewide? As evidenced by the recent increase in savings rates, US consumers have the ability to cut back when they need to.

As for getting "snookered" into mortgages, who the hell makes the biggest purchase of their lives based on a 5 minute sales pitch without doing any research or considering what happens when the ARM resets? I'll give a 90 year old grandma a pass for getting snookered by fraud, but some people are just plain careless with their money and mostly deserve the consequences for making bad decisions. That's not a popular viewpoint in the current environment, but the alternative leads straight to "too big to fail" and taxpayer funded corporate losses.

[philwelch]

How many medical procedures have you seen the cash money prices for? In my experience, major open surgeries can be paid for with just over $1000 down and between $50 and $100 per month for a few years.

As for mortgages, what's the saying? You can't con an honest man?

People pay more money for take-out coffee than it costs to make a decent and nutritious meal, and this is considered perfectly normal. It's not impossible to be fiscally responsible, just unfashionable.

[joezydeco]

$1,000 down and $50/month? Wow! I know a couple of cancer patients that would love that plan. Maybe after they're gone, their families can keep up those payments instead of being bankrupted like they are now.

[philwelch]

Cancer's a tough one--frankly, it's one of the reasons I pay for catastrophic insurance ($50/mo in WA).

This was for a one time surgical operation. Long term ongoing care, as you've noticed, is gonna be a lot worse. That's what insurance is supposed to be for, not small shit like doctor's appointments, or manageable shit like surgeries. (Assuming you aren't covered by your employer or the government.)

The down payments, all told, were somewhat over $1000, $1200 or $1300 as I recall, and that's for anesthesiologist + surgeon after some amount of negotiation. The hospital had an assistance program that covered their end of the costs, which would have easily matched or exceeded the surgeon's bill otherwise.

[ahoyhere]

My friend Jason pays for everything in cash. He broke his arm; they initially wanted $20k, and he then talked them down to $16k.

The price for my sinus surgery was $40k.

Hell, when I went to the ER because I had pneumonia, and no insurance, I paid $700.

Where are you finding these prices for surgery - Tijuana?

[philwelch]

Eastern Washington.

[ahoyhere]

You do realize that Washington is one of the cheapest states, right?

[philwelch]

Is it? Well I guess I know where I'm getting my elective surgeries from now on.