[kridsdale]

You may classify this under idealism, but I bet a lot of them would claim to just have realistic understandings of the brutalities that are a requirement to keep an empire running. They would say that those who would hold back from exploring any means neccissary to defeat their geopolitical adversaries are the idealists.

[cryoshon]

ah yes, the pragmatist's prayer-- "it was necessary even if it was immoral, therefore it was right, even if it was wrong, therefore i am noble, even if i have lost my humanity"

everyone jumps to the question of "does the end justify the means?"

a better question: why jump to the most brutal means before questioning whether the end is worthwhile regardless of the means?

is government mind control something we really want them to be able to do in the context of an intelligence agency? no, it is not; it is the apex of the opposite of human rights.

[jhiska]

You are asking the wrong questions.

Is morality powerful enough to stop actions?

Government thugs can survive with a guilty conscience.

[goldenkey]

I think you might want to consider context-free vs bound actions and their respective moralities. If an action is wrong, when context-free, can it be right when context-bound?

"A kills B" wrong

"A kills B".bind("B tries to kill A") righteous?