[stinky]

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs.

I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free university education, and way more upward mobility than they could ever dream of.

The deal could be so that you can move to Europe for any job, and if you work for 5 years then you are eligible for permanent residence. If you loose your work, and become unemployed for more than 6 months you have to move back to US.

Yes, there would be risks, but at the same time, it could also be a win win - hard working folk from USA would get a chance to raise their kids in a society that would allow them to put their kids through college without selling a kidney.

[vadimberman]

> I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people

Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Russians want to have a word with you.

And no, Americans won't move to Europe to do blue-collar jobs. That's what East Europeans, Asians, Africans already do, Americans won't do it any cheaper. Heck, go to the South, compete with the Mexicans. Why do you think it's any different?

If you really, really want to move elsewhere, there are plenty of opportunities. You'll have to brush up on geography and languages first though, and start assuming nobody will grant you special privileges for being an American.

[mseebach]

> way more upward mobility than they could ever dream of

It's worth keeping in mind that it's relative upwards mobility - upwards mobility in the US conjures up some slightly different mental images. Top 10% in Denmark is absolutely unremarkable middle class in the US.

If you enjoy being relatively equal to your neighbours, then it's great, if you enjoy objective material wealth, less so.

[thirdsun]

You probably already know this, but of course it's useless to compare absolute material wealth between european and US citizens.

Again, you might already be aware of that, but I'd say it's much more important to consider the benefits that come with a european wage that might seem unremarkable in the US: Healthcare, education, social security are the most obvious aspects, but in general I'm sure your money, even if it's less in absolute terms, will buy you a lot more in europe.

[lucaspiller]

One of the complicated parts about this for US citizens is taxes. If you are a US citizen you have to file taxes with the IRS for your worldwide income, even if you are living and paying taxes in another country. I assume most EU countries have a tax-treaty with the US, so you wouldn't have to pay taxes twice, but it definitely makes it more complicated.

[koliber]

Yes. The process of filing taxes in the US for citizens living abroad is complicated enough that it warrants hiring an accountant. This is a few hundred bucks whether you end up owing tax or not. Additionally, there is a mandatory filing of foreign bank accounts called FBAR. This is a real pain in the butt as the process is cumbersome.

All in all, I waste one day of productivity per year because of the IRS and FBAR filing requirements. I don't have to pay any tax.

[zinckiwi]

Curious, as this will start to affect my family soon: is TurboTax and its ilk not up to this task yet? (That is, a net nil return on foreign income given a double-taxation treaty.)

[BeetleB]

Only if your income exceeds something like $90K. If they could get that kind of a job anywhere in the world, they don't need to leave the US.

[stadeschuldt]

Unless you move into one of the bigger cities like Berlin, Hamburg or Munich you will be out of luck if you don't speak German. And especially if we are talking about blue collar jobs.

[coldtea]

>I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people

Assuming the words EU, Germany etc mean anything more than plots of land (e.g. a culture, a people, shared history etc), then merely replacing a population with another from abroad is not a solution to EU's or Germany's problem of aging population.

It might be a solution to "working hands" needed, but not to the general problem of "how we ensure there remains something like Germany in 2500 and is not just some geographical boundaries".

>Americans in general are super hard working.

Whereas Asians and Africans etc (common immigration origins into EU today) are lazy? In fact, as employers typically abuse them (based on their semi-legal status), they work hard even without all the benefits you suggest Americans workers would have (so from the perspective of the employers they're even better).

[beojan]

> I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over.

Just as soon as the US does the same for EU citizens.

[valisystem]

> I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over.

I'm pretty sure that any employable american can achieve that without hard efforts, and AFAIK most welfare is granted to salaried people, except for unemployment allowance. Same with education, some countries are equal (very low) tuitions no-question-asked.

For hardly employable 'hard worker' american, I'm pretty sure that are plenty of hard working immigration candidate to fill that. And there's no reason that low wages jobs will end better life condition for americans than others, and end up to the same problems that often comes with poverty : crime, social resent and injustice, just like home. If you think that americans will work harder and paid better that an struggling immigrant, I think you are highly delusional, low wages hard just enough to live, and nobody will pay more for the same job.

[xamuel]

I did my postdoc work in the UK, as a US Citizen.

After getting the job offer and being sponsored by UCL, it took months for them to grant me a visa, and it cost thousands of dollars just to apply for one. (That's just what I had to pay out of pocket, and doesn't include whatever UCL had to pay to sponsor me.)

[JoshMnem]

It's already possible if you have technical skills. Just find a company to sponsor you.

I once emigrated to Austria. Permanent residency would have been offered after 5 years, but I came back to the US before that.

[doktrin]

> It's already possible if you have technical skills.

By and large, an American engineer moving to Europe is trading down in a big way - including but definitely not limited to financial compensation.

[JoshMnem]

Cost of living is much lower. Health care is included. I think there were six weeks of paid vacation per year. Budapest was a 2 hour bus ride away (10 euros), and many other interesting destinations were very close. If difficult times strike, you won't be left to die on the street. Things like life experience and culture are often more important than money.

[doktrin]

I don't agree about cost of living aside from outliers like the SFBA, and US healthcare is by and large better if you have access to insurance.

At the end of the day, in the US you get more pay, more respect and more recognition for the same work - and in many cases American software devs get vacation packages that are comparable to the European standard.

[JoshMnem]

US is ranked something like 37th in the world for health care. I lived in a top-10 country, though didn't use the health care there.

[doktrin]

> US is ranked something like 37th in the world for health care.

That low ranking is probably well deserved, but it applies at the macro level. The US medical system is fundamentally asymmetrical, but it's great for the "haves" - and for those privileged enough to enjoy good insurance plans, it offers some of the best healthcare in the world.

Given the context of this discussion, I think it's fair to assume that American engineers considering a move abroad currently have health coverage at home (or are in a position to get it). Apples to apples.

[stinky]

Yep, it is easy for an expert to move to EU, but people going hungry in the article above are not experts in technical fields.

[Tomte]

Would they want to move?

More importantly, would they be willing to learn the language?

[martin_bech]

Thats actually pretty easy to do, if you are from the US, and can get a job in say Denmark, where you can support yourself. And your kids will get free college, scholarships and affordable daycare. You will need privat insurance for healthcare initialy i believe.

[ptaipale]

Not really. In the Nordics, the right to public healthcare comes with a residence permit. (And nowadays, at least in Sweden, to some extent even with illegal residency).

Of course, you may still want to have a private healthcare insurance to have quick access to care. The public system in Nordics is great for preventive care for children, and emergencies and serious situations for everyone, but not so great for everyday items. Larger employers often provide a private health care plan so that employees don't have to spend hours in queues.

[ebiester]

They already have the Turks there for precisely that reason, and have since the 50s.

[arkh]

I think it would be a huge error. The US culture already pervades everywhere in the EU thanks to their medias. We really don't want them to invade us directly and out-birth our native population using our health care system and social benefits. They should stay in their country.

[celdon25]

1. I can't picture that many Americans moving to Europe, even if it were easier. 2. Of those who do move, do you think they will be smart or stupid for doing so? Will Europe get America's best or worst people? 3. Isn't Europe full of Middle Eastern refugees and globalists? Is your view a minority or is it a common opinion of Europeans?

[arkh]

1. I don't either but if we limit immigration from one kind of culture we should limit it from all.

2. I'd say those who want to profit from "free" healthcare first. Kind of what happen with our expats: once they start popping kids they come back because they can pay a lot less.

3. Full of Middle Eastern refugees? Asking this is like someone asking if the US is full of Mexican illegals. No.

I started my comment a little "tongue-in-cheek" but the more I think about it the more I realize the culture difference could be hard: out of the UK people speak a foreign language, no credit score system, a lot more socialism, less PC-ness, being patriotic (out of sporting events) is usually not well viewed. And instead of simple racism you have xenophobia: most people don't care about your skin color but a lot will care about your country of birth.

[celdon25]

There are actually relatively few racists in the US (especially in non rural areas), but I have been aware of the rampant European-style racism for awhile due to my mother being a flight attendant, and how she was treated. Sad to hear that we even have apologists for it on Hacker News.

[arkh]

> There are actually relatively few racists in the US

From outside you seem obsessed with race and skin color. I like US stand-up so I watched all def on HBO: it is funny but "black there", "white there". It looks like the kind of difference we have between European countries: we lightly joke about it but there's always an undercurrent of repressed us vs them.

And I'd like more people to stop using the word racism for xenophobia: racism is based on appearance, xenophobia is based on origin. One is the fear of difference the other is the fear of the stranger. For racists, a black Spanish and a white Spanish are different, not for xenophobes. For xenophobes a White American is not the same thing as a white South African while they're the same thing for racists.

[coldtea]

>Of those who do move, do you think they will be smart or stupid for doing so?

Parent didn't mention smart or stupid, he mentioned culture. Regardless of smarts, Americans wont be sharing the same culture with this or that European people.

>Isn't Europe full of Middle Eastern refugees and globalists?

Even if so, how would adding American immigration to that help?

>Is your view a minority or is it a common opinion of Europeans?*

We usually like our culture, thank you very much.