[txttran]

I'm always interested in reading about the inner workings of gangs. It seems like these biker gangs are not particularly sophisticated nor well organized, though. The main one in the story immediately lost cohesion when their leader fled the country and were absorbed by the Yakuza. In many ways, they seem less robust and effective than biker/street gangs in America.

[jandrese]

There is a tension on how organized you make your gang. Too organized and the power concentrates at one person who is easy to arrest or assassinate and then there is a power vacuum that pulls the organization apart.

Basically you trade off being more effective for being more robust. When any member can be arrested at any time it makes sense to retain only loose organization even though you won't get as much done.

[pwaai]

I wonder if having all of your members be independently mobile on their motorcycles allowed them to thrive in North America. It's so much easier to commit crime when you just hop on and off a bike, access paths unavailable to cars

Recently I've been reading about Vancouver's gang wars and it strikes me just how persistent Hells Angels seem to be compared to other groups that have all but disappeared off the radar or become friendly to Hells Angels.

Perhaps decentralization is the new organized crime paradigm...we won't be seeing supercartels like Cali anymore

[germinalphrase]

"Leaderless Resistance" has a long history within groups that seek to remain covert (for both legal or illegal reasons).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaderless_resistance

[kridsdale]

Motorcycles are hyper powered horses. The war tactics of the preindustrialized world still apply.

[azernik]

American biker gangs in particular benefit from deep cultural roots. They originated post-WWII as associations of disaffected veterans, and continue to have a well of support in groups that follow that culture without any illegal activity. These Japanese biker gangs seem to have a much lighter base of support.

(Interesting side note, gay leatherman culture grew out of specific gay biker gangs, and mainstream biker groups like Hell's Angels have a positive view of leather culture despite their macho image.)

[forapurpose]

> American biker gangs ... originated post-WWII as associations of disaffected veterans

Based on what I've read, in any country demobilized soldiers are a challenge; they are trained in violence, and are often traumatized, have trouble fitting in with civilians, and lack valuable civilian skills. In some places they become violent insurgents (a recent example is Iraq), in some the government finds a war for them (I've read that that was a motivation for the Crusades), and in the U.S. post-WWII it appears that some became biker gangs, a sort of vigilante for a peaceful society.

[azernik]

And even when they did not become involved in violence, they gave demobilized soldiers a clear hierarchy, with insignia and chains of command.

[kevinstubbs]

That's really interesting! Do you happen to remember where you read about demobilized soldiers in countries, or about the possible motivation for the crusades?

[forapurpose]

> Do you happen to remember where you read about demobilized soldiers in countries

I've read it many times about many countries, current and historical. Find resources serious and detailed enough to deal with that kind of policy issue. There is abundant discussion in the U.S. press (e.g., the NY Times) of the demobilization of the Iraqi army after the Iraq War.

> or about the possible motivation for the crusades

Sorry, not off the top of my head, but it's a relatively well-known theory and I read it more than once. As I wrote, I've read that theory; I didn't say such things happened. That's because I don't recall whether the source was based on serious research and expertise or was repeating a semi-popular 'wisdom'.