[esarbe]

You are talking about speculators. Anybody that holds an financial instrument for less than five years (my definition) is a speculator.

Warren Buffet is an investor. He buys a business (he thinks) he understands and then holds on to it while it generates profit.

It really bothers me that - in business terms - investors are nowadays just lumped together with speculators.

Investors try to build something while speculators just try to make money, no matter the cost to anybody else.

[sah2ed]

> Investors try to build something while speculators just try to make money, no matter the cost to anybody else.

Based on your definition, what would you call Carl Icahn then?

I tend to agree with John Bogle's definition that both types of people are in it for the money, the only fundamental difference is the time horizon either is willing to wait to reap the returns from their investment.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Bogle#Investment_philo...:

The main difference between investment and speculation lies in the time horizon. Investment is concerned with capturing returns on the long-run with lower risk, while speculation is concerned with achieving returns over a short period of time. Bogle believes this is an important analysis to be taken into account as short-term, risky investments have been flooding the financial markets.

[Simon_says]

> what would you call Carl Icahn then?

Asshole?

[cesarb]

> Anybody that holds an financial instrument for less than five years (my definition) is a speculator.

So you think for instance that someone who puts all their income into a savings account, taking from it during the month to pay their expenses, is a speculator?

There are uses for short-term financial instruments other than speculation, for instance protecting the principal from inflation.

[Cthulhu_]

I'd argue that some investors - the angel / startup investors - are gamblers, they place their bets on 100 startups and bet that one of them will be the next Facebook and eventually either sell for billions, or go to the stock market itself to get billions.

The more traditional investor gets a stake in a company and due to that stake gets a say in the running of the company, thus having an influence on its future and growth (or decline). Less of a gamble there, it becomes part of their own responsibility then.