[webology]

If this came from Microsoft then everyone would bitch but no one would think twice about it. Google tries to be at a class above everyone else down to their company motto of "Do no Evil". Whether it was a few guys working off the clock or using their 20% time at work it was still Google that released it.

Don't get me wrong, I do think Google has a right to release competing products and they have done so with Gmail and many other apps. However, it's a very crappy message to send would-be developers to "trust" them to do the right thing. Let's not lose perspective just because you may or may not like the 37 Signals guys, it was a pretty crappy message to chance sending.

[halo]

I think that's nonsense, and think the exact opposite - if someone else other than Google had come out with this no-one would have given a damn and it would have received little to no press. It's only because Google is a big company - in itself this isn't news at all.

A browser-based chat client is a hardly spectacularly original idea, and 37signal's Campfire itself owes much to IRC, a protocol invented some 20 years ago and pretty much every IRC client has an extremely similar "look and feel" to Campfire anyway. I'm also very surprised no-one has created a free alternative to Campfire before - it seems like a painfully obvious thing to create and quite a small project.

And if it came from MS, I doubt anyone would have cared either - certainly no more than Google. Did anyone bitch when Microsoft largely recreated Java with .NET? Did anyone really care when Microsoft brought out Live.com strongly inspired by Google? Did anyone care when they brought out MSN Messenger, inspired by AIM and ICQ? What about taking on Flash (a JavaScript-based in-browser environment) with Silverlight (a JavaScript-based in-browser environment)? All those things are much more shameless than a JavaScript chat client.

[webology]

I never stated it was an original idea but copying features plus innovating which was the course Google took with Gmail and their product releases was innovation. However, when you clone someones app feature-for-feature down to the nearly the exact design then that is a rip-off.

When Microsoft created .net both pro and anti-Microsoft supported complained rather largely to answer your question. This was during the aspx days that eventually was scrapped in order to support common languages across their platforms.

You seemed to have missed my point though, this isn't Google or Microsoft creating a competitive product and going to market with it. It's Google asking developers and startups to trust them with both your code and data but they'll do the right thing with it. I wouldn't have trusted Microsoft back in the 90's before they were depicted as the borg on Slashdot and I don't trust Google now based on their decision to copy an application from the same market they are trying to encourage to use Google App Engine. This isn't Microsoft vs. Google or Adobe but it was in bad taste and they obvious agreed since they took down the app.

[sanswork]

You seem to be missing the point though that campfire is very far from original. To say google ripped them off is to imply the developed the basic chat interface themselves which is wrong.

Google developed a basic web chat, the likes of which have existed online for years before 37Signals was even a glint in DHHs eye. And almost all have shared a very similar look and feel because it makes sense.

[webology]

I never said 37 Signal's idea was original or defended them on that point. I also stated that before. When you take the functionality and design from one specific site without adding innovation then that is a rip off. I think too many people are caught up on whether or not they like Ruby on Rails or 37 Signals vs. seeing what Google did and calling foul. Good for Google to own up and pull the site though.

[sanswork]

Disclaimer: I use Rails daily, and have no hard feelings for DHH or 37Signals.

That out of the way, you are still saying that Google took the functionality and design from Campfire. Where as what I am saying is that Google took the functionality and design from almost every web chat program that came before it and there was a large number before Campfire itself existed.

To say they took it from campfire is to ignore all the existing implementations that existed before it. It is to rewrite history with the starting point for web chat on the launch date of Campfire.

I doubt Google pulled it because they thought they ripped off Campfire, my money would be on them pulling it because it wasn't important enough to risk bad PR over.