[jamesg]

Heya liedra,

Well, we're definitely not professional ethicists. What we do do a lot of is talking to our customers, and the people we've spoken to, generally, haven't been the paranoid types that you describe. Generally they've been very level-headed people, and in speaking to them you can hear how much they care about their kids.

One person we spoke to recently, though very concerned for knowing his kids locations, I think has much better data on the actual dangers to his children than most (certainly more than me, and I'd posit more than you). He was a police detective and loved the application because of the piece of mind that it gave him. I think I'm a reasonable judge of character, and in my evaluation, this wasn't a trust issue, it was just an early warning system to know when his family might be in danger.

I don't know that we're encouraging paranoia. I think that paranoia will be there no matter what we do. I acknowledge that there's the potential for us to profit from it, but I guess I think you under-estimate parents, and I can see why: I did initially as well.

To me, it comes down to this: when we first came up with this idea, I had a lot of the same reservations you do. But, we did our homework. We speak to people all the time about this. And my honest opinion is that parents are not as bad as you think.

[DavidSJ]

There's almost no legitimate fear here. Kids are almost never abducted.

Maybe most parents will tell themselves it's just for their kids' safety, but what do you think will happen when Jane spends the evening at her boyfriend's house instead of going to her music lesson? Do you think most parents are going to pretend they don't know? Does it matter?

Jane is now living in a police state.

[fragmede]

I'll admit I watch far too much Law and Order, but the first step after abducting a child? Toss their cell phone. Into the some other kid's backpack, or another parent's car, or a trash can at the greyhound station.

Throw the police and parents off the scent while little Jane gets hurt. Oh, she's still at school. Actually, she was abducted hours ago, and the trail is now complete cold.

[detst]

While I generally agree with you, I think this can be done properly. Track and notify the kid every time their location information is accessed. They say they'll be home absolutely no later than midnight. Parents call at 12:30am with no answer. They try again at 12:45am without an answer and finally check location at 1:00am. The kid knows they are late, sees two missed calls on their phone, finally followed by the location check.

I think that's a legitimate use that would be agreeable to most kids. While abductions numbers are low, things do happen to kids; being able to get their location when something seems wrong is a legitimate use, IMO. Sure it can be abused, but those parents are already invading their privacy in other ways.

[liedra]

The problem is that you're talking to customers, not the general public, not the children. Of course your clients are going to love your product. That's why they're buying it. It doesn't mean they're right, however.

The other problem is that social acceptance (i.e. your anecdotes about your clients) != social acceptability. Society can agree on some really terrible things to do to people, as history can attest.

Another problem is the fact that you're potentially dealing with minors here who are being coerced (through being given an iPhone) into using this system. Even if it's by their parents, this raises serious alarms, since it's a severe power imbalance against kids who can't necessarily think through the consequences of accepting it in a rational manner like adults can (or should be able to).

The other other problems are related to the information the app generates, the potential misuse of that information, and what other commenters before have said about phones being mislaid, hijacked, etc.

Did you actually talk to kids at all? Or just their parents? If not, why not? They're as big a stakeholder, if not bigger, than the parents involved!

I'm not trying to say you're not a great company or good people. I'm just trying to point out some of the serious ethical issues with the product you've put out.

[mickdj]

Yes we spoke to the kids and the parents. Can I ask how many 12 year-old kids you've asked about this?

I try to spend several hours a week on the phone doing exactly that - talking to all the users of the service.

We agree that they're just as big a stakeholder as the parents.

[liedra]

OK that's fine, but how about the other issues? :)

It's not my job to ask 12 year old kids, it's yours :) But I'm curious, what sorts of questions do you ask them? You say you are on the phone talking to them, do you actually show them how it works in practice? Have you used well-known HCI techniques and vulnerable persons focus groups, etc. (1)? Have you approached children's groups for advice on children's rights and parental responsibility?

These are just a few things off the top of my head, too, that a responsible company should go through before developing anything to do with children.

BTW if you've done all this, put it on your website! Reassure the people who might want to use (or critique) your application! :)

(1)http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=HCI+techniques+children&... is a great place to start if you're interested in doing this.

[fragmede]

Parents, generally, aren't that overbearing. The ones that aren't, aren't going to pay a monthly fee (assuming that's your monetization strategy), for this. The ones that are, are your customers.