[Tasboo]

The notion that you can have all the benefits of a centrally governed society with all the liberties of total freedom is an unrealistic expectation. In order to ensure basic societal services are readily available for an entire nation, certain personal liberties must be given up in exchange. You can't have it both ways. For some people, this is news to them. Myself, and apparently most of the western world, we'd rather give up those liberties for the massive benefits that we get in exchange. The idea of absolute freedom is chaos.

[jahaja]

I'm not sure what you're even talking about. All I'm saying is that given the vast progress we've made, leisure for the masses has been disproportionately disfavoured. To say that, if I follow you correctly, this situation is somehow inherently "how it go to be" is just dogmatic.

> Myself, and apparently most of the western world, we'd rather give up those liberties for the massive benefits that we get in exchange.

Never mind that this is a blatant false dichotomy, there is no such choice offered.

[whiddershins]

GP did not talk about total freedom, but rather used the term literal freedom.

Your comment in that context is attacking a straw man of what GP wrote.