[seanmcdirmid]

I am the child of modest workers (my dad didn’t even have a bachelor degree) and have even experienced bankruptcy as a pre teen. I’m definitely not a western elite by background, but was able to experience Chinese society. Heck, there is a whole stereotype, not completely unjustified, of western losers coming to China to make a long term living as rockstar English teachers.

[walshemj]

There used to be a British acronym FILTH Failed in London, Try Hong Kong :-)

[thrway123324]

I am using a throwaway for obvious reasons. But having been to both HK and Shanghai, I can say there is a world of difference between Westerners in both cities. The ones in HK working in finance at least have a college degree. They know how to behave in a proper surrounding. The ones I met in Shanghai are almost all trailer trash that have nowhere else to go. The filth coming out their mouths is astounding. You can see why a lot of Chinese people don't like them: egotistical and cynical. They also have chip on their shoulders. That's when you know how a person is brought up truly matters.

[seanmcdirmid]

Most of the foreigners I knew in Beijing had PhDs like myself, some just had master degrees. But then I was working in a research lab. I heard of the English teachers but never met them before.

The thing about foreigners in mainland China vs. Hong Kong, there just aren’t that many at all. Maybe shanghai has the most, but even then it is less than 100k, a drop in the bucket compared to Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, or even Bangkok.

[thrway12332412]

"Most of the foreigners I knew in Beijing had PhDs". Speaking of research, you are illustrating self-selection bias and small sample size fallacy in your argument. A small group of friends do not represent the whole. You shoudn't downvote people just because their opinion differs from yours.

[seanmcdirmid]

Of course it was, but then again there are so few foreigners in Beijing that small sample size bias is inevitable.

Also, haven’t downvotes anyone on this thread.

[thrway123324212]

Seems like you are choosing to downvote people that do not agree with you. I prefer to argue with logic and not downvotes. Its very unfortunate. Good day, Mr. Mcdirmid.

[gus_massa]

The software of HN forbid to downvote the replies to a comment that a user has made, so seanmcdirmid was not able to downvote you. Someone else had to downvoted your comments.

[In case you are wondering, I didn't downvote you neither.]

[Also, complains about downvotes and accusations of downvotes are good methods to get more downvotes. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ]

[seanmcdirmid]

I didn’t downvote anyone.

[pcr0]

Heard this a lot in investment banking. Definitely "used to be" as these days you're unlikely to make it in Hong Kong either.

[user5994461]

The friends I know who tried to get into either say it's as hard to join HK as London. They are both super competitive.

[seanmcdirmid]

Well, they could try Shanghai.

[user5994461]

The main offices are usually in NYC, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore. I don't think that Shanghai is an option.

[seanmcdirmid]

There is some investment and finance going on in shanghai these days. It isn’t world-class, but everyone wants to be there to learn and look to the future. Kind of like how HK and Singapore were 40-50 years ago.