[daxorid]

Advance apologies for getting a little off-topic, but compelled to reply in this case.

I'm...not even sure how to respond to this historical misunderstanding, other than Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_...

> there is literally nothing in the tenets against groups of people or violence

Depending on the particular regime and which groups they designate as the bourgeoisie: Scientists, Farmers, Journalists, Factory Managers, Christians, Jews, Petty Criminals, Tartars, Kurds, Ukrainians, Germans, Poles, Estonians, Kulaks, Teachers(who taught the wrong thing), Capitalists, etc.

The wonderful thing about Communism is that if the Eye of Sauron falls upon your arbitrary group and designated as bourgeoisie, you will be (enslaved|tortured|killed).

At least with national socialism you have a chance to get out.

[croon]

> I'm...not even sure how to respond to this historical misunderstanding, other than Wikipedia:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_....

So you didn't actually even read my post. This is what I wrote:

> I don't disagree that communist regimes have killed innumerable people

And then you continue:

> Depending on the particular regime and which groups they designate as the bourgeoisie: Scientists, Farmers, Journalists, Factory Managers, Christians, Jews, Petty Criminals, Tartars, Kurds, Ukrainians, Germans, Poles, Estonians, Kulaks, Teachers(who taught the wrong thing), Capitalists, etc.

This was exactly my point.

> At least with national socialism you have a chance to get out.

Not if you're born the wrong way.

And I'm curious as to why you didn't comment on Christianity, and how you view killing in the name of Christ/God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence#War

Is Christianity then the same as Communism in terms of violence?

[daxorid]

As it's XGiving, I lack time to respond in full, but again, compelled to reply to this:

>> At least with national socialism you have a chance to get out. > Not if you're born the wrong way.

This is demonstrably untrue. A good historical example would be the Madagascar Plan, in which Germany was willing to fund the relocation of their "undesirables", but was prevented from doing so by the Allies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

Prior to even this, Nazi Germany absolutely did give their "undesirables" ample opportunity to flee, which led to a major humanitarian crisis (about which the Allies did nothing):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89vian_Conference

The larger point here is that: yes, National Socialism is a certain grade of evil, but as an ideology that offers the chance for their targeted groups to get out, it is significantly and substantially less evil than an ideology that kills/tortures/enslaves ON SIGHT and not only offers no chance of escape, but actively prevents it, as is the case of nearly every implementation of Communism the world has seen thus far.

So, if you are a member of a targeted group, if given a choice between two evils:

1. An evil which hates you but at least gives you the chance to make a life somewhere else.

and

2. An evil which prevents you from leaving and shoots, starves, or enslaves you on sight.

I don't think there is any objective argument to me made that option 1 is somehow worse. Option 2 is objectively more evil.

Perhaps after USXGiving I will have more time to respond to your other points. Cheers!

[curtisblaine]

Wait: the one who wants to silence speech is you.

We are just saying that, if you want to silence people in the name of past mass killings, you have to silence a lot of people. Nazis, communist / socialists, probably even Christians and Muslims, yes.

Wouldn't be better to just not try to silence anyone? :)

[croon]

> Wait: the one who wants to silence speech is you.

> We are just saying that, if you want to silence people in the name of past mass killings, you have to silence a lot of people. Nazis, communist / socialists, probably even Christians and Muslims, yes.

> Wouldn't be better to just not try to silence anyone? :)

No, I'm saying that inherently violent ideologies are different from non-violent ideologies that have been used for violent ends.

[curtisblaine]

Good luck drawing a line. Communism advocates destruction of the borgeouisie. Is it inherently violent? "Destruction" seems pretty violent to me.

[curtisblaine]

I, for one, am a bourgeois and happy to be. I'd be in deep shit if any communist or socialist inspired group hypothetically took power in my country.