[diggan]

Yeah, but hopefully they can't do much if they just have your code base. If the secrecy of your code is the only thing stopping hackers from exploiting you, you're missing some gaping holes in your infrastructure. With that said, nothing wrong with using secrecy as a additional barrier, but shouldn't be the only, and if it's not the only, you're not "so owned at that point".

[toyg]

“Just” leaking full source could be enough to destroy a lot of IP-based companies. A lot of companies stay wealthy because their IP is so huge than nobody can afford to develop competitive alternatives anymore (Adobe, Microsoft Office, Salesforce etc). Some of them have actual “secret sauce” that they cannot afford to share (suggestion engines, biotech processes etc). Even a service like Github, which relies on others entrusting their work to them, would take a humongous reputation hit from a leak like that.

[diggan]

> Adobe, Microsoft Office, Salesforce

I don't think either of those companies would cease to exist if their code bases leaked online today. Sure, someone might get something to build, but there is surely A LOT of things around the code bases to support all of this, which means the code bases would mostly serve as a study for software in general (and finding holes obviously).

Github is a bit unfair comparision, as their business is literally to make your code private, so if it leaks then of course it would be a hard hit. For the general company, I think leaking access credentials is a much bigger (but easier to fix) problem than leaking the source code itself.

[toyg]

> I don't think either of those companies would cease to exist if their code bases leaked online today.

A serious Photoshop clone that can match PS feature for feature would wipe Adobe, people cannot wait to get rid of them. 25% of MS revenues comes directly from Office and another 25% from Windows or other commercial offerings that are basically driven by Office, so yeah, MS would survive a working Office clone, but they would be deeply wounded; they pulled all the dirty tricks in the book to keep competitors from integrating seamlessly... having the real code responsible for their formats available in the open, would hurt them massively.

These companies are as big as they are because they did the right moves at the right time, and now they have spent so many man-decades on their codebases that nobody can realistically hope to catch up starting from scratch; but having a good look at their codebases would likely kickstart oozes of competitors with very good chances to replace them in a very short time.

> For the general company, I think leaking access credentials is a much bigger (but easier to fix) problem than leaking the source code itself.

Credentials are a mean to an end: protecting something. If you are Ashley Madison, your valuable IP is your database of users and their preferences; but if you are Microsoft or Adobe, what credentials are protecting is your source code. Adobe survived their user credentials being leaked, like so many other companies. They would have hurt much more had they leaked the entire PS codebase.

[sp0rk]

But a competing company can't just give a copy of the leaked source code to their developers and tell them to go to town. Even by employing clean room design, you can't get around all the patents that likely protect many of the features that Photoshop users consider crucial.

[toyg]

> you can't get around all the patents

Just open a shop in China and obfuscate a bit. Job done.

[ransom1538]

"If the secrecy of your code is the only thing stopping hackers from exploiting you"

I hate these types of arguments. Yeah no one said that ever.

Losing your code base is terrible. I view it as losing a journal. What your company tries, tests you run, funny comments, or funny mistakes. I mean they post it on the net, blackmail team members, imposter team members, forge for leaks, sell it, pushes to prod from compromised accounts, CI systems, -- seems bad to me. Sure don't have aws keys in there.

[diggan]

Glad to be talking with you too! :) I didn't mean to imply you said something you didn't, only that I would consider access keys to various services be of much more importance the code base itself. I read you comment as "Doesn't matter about the access keys, if they have your source code, you're screwed no matter what", which in that case would seem a bit strong.

Also "pushes to prod from compromised accounts, CI systems" seems more related to access keys and account security rather than the actual code base.

But hey, in the end I'm no security expert so what do I know.

[ghostbrainalpha]

If they have access to the code inside Github, would they have been able to push their own changes to the code without anyone noticing?

Maybe pushing something that was labeled as a "security patch" but was actually a disguised vulnerability? I could see not even checking into that, and just downloading it. But I'm on a small team. Do big companies have procedures to protect against this?

[diggan]

Depends on how they get access. If they got control of one of the user accounts with push access, they could surely push code (but unsure about "without anyone noticing", depends on their own development processes I guess). However, if they got access to the code by reading some part of the memory/storage holding the code, without actually gaining access through authentication, they wouldn't be able to change it.