[quotemstr]

I reject the idea that "civilization" is a bad word. I regard regard large-scale, organized, and literate societies as being obviously better than barbarism. Scientific progress exists and it improves the human condition.

These views would make me unemployable in academia.

[froboz]

"Civilization" is not a _bad_ word so much as it's a badly _mis-used_ one (same as "culture"). My point was perhaps unclear; the issue is how it's been implemented politically that's the problem. I happen to think one _can_ use it in a scholarly context as a broad brushstroke reference, but only with care and discretion and an understanding of its historical use.

Labelling a community as "barbaric," however, has been a handy excuse for taking land and killing people for millenia. White settlers came to view Native Americans as barbaric, and that was reason enough for attempted genocide. A case could be made that trying to systemically eliminate an entire population might perhaps count as barbaric. "Barbarism," like "civilization," is in the eye of the beholder.

Being natives within a large-scale, organized, literate society, it's only natural to assume this is the best of all possible worlds, but one could make a counter-argument that this society leaves its members weak, alienated, and anomic. There's also the matter of poverty, large-scale warfare, oppression, and pollution that contemporary societies contribute. I must say, my digital watch is pretty neat, though.

As a scientist myself, I certainly place a great deal of value in science as a process of inquiry and understanding. However, science is just a tool, and like a hammer it can be used to cause harm as well as create. It all depends on the person wielding it.

[PopsiclePete]

Being from Eastern Europe myself, I also don't suffer from the American/West-European self-hatred and self-flaggelation that seems so rampant in Leftist circles. Heck, I remember what it was like to walk in Rome/Paris in the mid 90's compared to how it is now, and, God help me and my future employment prospects if this wasn't anonymous, I think it was better in many regards then, for reasons I dare not speak of.