[tdiggity]

Founder series limited to 1000 requires full deposit, that's $250 mil

Base model requires $45k deposit.

Not sure what semi requirements are.

Even if they are biting off more than they can chew, they can gauge reaction and devote more/less to this. I'm thinking that these ventures give their engineers a space to get really creative and push the envelope. And, these advancements make their way into the mainstream models.

[gregornobis]

$250mil sounds a lot - until you remember they currently burn through $400mil of cash in a month

[Danihan]

They also just laid off a ton of people, so maybe that burn rate is going to lower quite a bit.

[sf_rob]

$400M a month would be equivalent to ~20k full time engineer's total compensation, so I doubt layoffs will put a serious dent in it.

[Danihan]

Good point.

[greglindahl]

They laid off "a ton of people" but a small fraction of their workforce, not affecting their burn rate much. Watch out for those financial press headlines, Tesla is one of the most shorted stocks out there.

[tdiggity]

oh please. they're putting money into R&D and into the ramp up. Your statement makes it sound like they're using the money to wipe their @$$es. No, they're putting the money to work. And if the analysts and shareholders didn't believe that, the stock would tank.

[gregornobis]

Very true. Belief - not actual results - is what is behind Tesla's valuation.

[frogpelt]

Is Tesla that different from Amazon 15 years ago?

Net income was flat but the revenue kept going up.

[aerophilic]

I think that may be the core point of why they are doing this. They are in a cash crunch, if they get enough deposits it can certainly help their bottom line... without dilution.

[doikor]

Developing a car like to a car to that state (drivable at the event) will have taken 2 or 3 years already so I doubt it originally started as a fix for cash flow.

[aerophilic]

Agreed, but I would be surprised if that didn’t play into the math. One of Elon’s greatest strengths is to think ahead strategically and position himself for maximum upside towards his goals. So yes, I am sure he didn’t think he would need this to help with Model 3, but I am sure he knew he would need more cash on hand to make another “big bet”. Unfortunately it looks like this cash will go to current projects rather than a brand new initiative. Unless of course this was to help with Tesla Semi...

[rottyguy]

What's even more amazing is that F or GM couldn't possibly do this. First mover advantage plus the allure of someone like Musk is what is needed. I know many bash him for spreading himself too thin among all his other ambitions but it gives him good will capital (which can translate to economic capital) when needed.

[clintonb]

Ford or GM couldn't possibly do what? Pre-sales? The new Ford GT cost $450K and will only be available to select buyers during the first production year. I imagine GM does something similar with the higher-end Corvettes. Dodge did the same with Viper.

[fma]

If they need more cash then they can just have another investor round. There's enough fan boys that would invest.

I would prefer that Ford and GM not do this... I don't see how producing a $250,000 car will help the common folk, which is who Ford and GM serves.

Tesla had first mover advantage with their Model 3 and now they are floundering. GM's Chevy Bolt is out producing and out selling the Model 3 despite first movers advantage and all the 'good will' Tesla generated... Despite people saying 'GM could never do this'.

I also don't know why you would say Ford or GM couldn't do it when they produce vehicles that race in Nascar and have R&D for that sport.

Ford and GM are mature companies and expected to actually make money, while Tesla is expected to make good will and headlines.

I'll be more excited when Tesla meets their originally projected production numbers.

[fhood]

Don't underestimate the importance of these flagship cars. They serve a purpose. Why do you think Ford has the GT? They are a test bed for new technologies and increase brand prestige.

[rottyguy]

I'll note the original date for the 5k and 10k/week numbers were end of 2018 and 2020. Musk pushed it by 2yrs so "floundering" seems unfair here.

[vermontdevil]

Ford does produce cars that are not for the "common folk". Same with Mercedes, BMW, etc.

[bpicolo]

Ford and GM can absolutely do this. Tesla is "hot", but Ford is successful.

People underestimating the big players and cars aren't thinking about the economics right. Ford markets are almost two orders of magnitude more than Tesla is producing. If Ford sees the global opportunity to sell 10-20 million EVs a year they'll build the crap out of them.

[stochastic_monk]

Ford sells pieces of shit and then tells you you're crazy every time you report a problem -- until a month after your last complaint when there's a company-wide recall.

I am never doing anything that gives them my money again.

Source: [ashamed] owner of Ford for 3+ years.

[funnelsgun]

Focus RS head gasket failure per chance?

[stochastic_monk]

Transmission.

I think this is the one. http://fordpowershiftlawsuit.com/

[saturdaysaint]

"First mover advantage" is a concept that applies to platforms, and not to a millionaire status symbol/fashion statement. Most people spending $200,000+ on a vehicle want to be among the only people at the country club with it. This looks like a hot car, but I wouldn't hesitate to test drive Aston Martins or Ferrari's if I was playing with that kind of cash.

Also, GM and Ford do highly profitable business with the wealthy - Ford pickups are the most owned vehicle among millionaires and Cadillac keeps turning profits that Musk should envy.

[Robotbeat]

They DID show a monster of a pickup truck at the unveiling as well. It's almost like a /second/ roadster but aimed at the millionaire truck lover. Of course, they aren't taking reservations for that because someone probably convinced Musk the number of rich truck lovers who also would love electric is small enough that it's not yet worth spending too much energy on the idea.

[illumin8]

They did? I watched it and never saw a pickup truck.

[Robotbeat]

Here: https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla-pickup-truck-first-imag...

It's based on the semi truck. They didn't announce reservations for it or anything. It might be fair to call it a concept truck at this time, but I doubt it's the last we'll see of it.