[_jdams]

The shell of a web app/website can be built with white background on black text without any viewing library at first, right? So, would it make sense for a beginner to just pick one of the few frameworks you listed above Note+Express/Laravel/Django/etc. and just get to work on what it means to have a CRUD?

I feel like most tutorials always complicated things by trying to add too much at once -- to a fault, I've never been able to learn Node/Express and build a working app where I could add a record, delete it, update it, etc. Once it gets to "ROUTING" I kind of lose it, unfortunately. Haha.

I would probably be better off with Wordpress for most website needs, anyway...

[dabockster]

The core WordPress software is amazing. The plugin developers and community are another story. I've had cases where WordPress plugins have unlisted dependencies, bundled plugins that completely alter the WordPress Dashboard, build systems that go against established WordPress software patterns, etc etc etc. The majority of the community seems to be fine with this as they treat it like self-hosted Squarespace (set it, forget it, don't need to learn programming, contract any programming that does need to happen as cheaply as possible).

[stephenr]

> The core WordPress software is amazing

In that outsiders who see the code are amazed people still proudly ship this glorp?

[dabockster]

I meant in the sense of creating a small self-hosted blog. I wouldn't dare use it in a setting where money is on the line.

[andrei_says_]

Last time I tried developing for WordPress I gave up in frustration. What an incomprehensible mess of spaghetti code.