[solipsism]

Anything spinning in an asymmetrical way (e.g. two bodies orbiting each other, but not a single body spinning) loses angular momentum as gravity waves. This is true whether it's two black holes or a tumbling dumbbell.

In addition to that, the ultimate merger of the black holes releases the incredible amount of gravitational potential energy that existed between them when they were separate bodies.

No mass escapes the event horizon. These are black holes after all :)

[spuz]

How much of the 1 solar mass of detectable gravitational energy is released before the moment of collision and how much is released at the moment of collision? Is the mechanism for release of this energy the same in both cases? If 1 solar mass of energy was released in total, and the mass of the combined black hole is less than the two before the merger, how is it possible that none of the mass of the black holes has escaped their respective event horizons?

[improbable22]

There isn't exactly one moment of collision like snooker balls, the two spiral and merge and then settle down to look like one bigger black hole. But the time during which most of the energy is radiated is quite short, like 0.1s.

The missing mass is precisely the amount of energy that was radiated away.

We should not think of the mass of the black hole as being the amount of matter stored inside, which may escape... regardless of how it was created, the black hole is just a ball of pure gravity. Its mass is defined by its effect on things far away. You can measure the mass of Jupiter by watching how fast a satellite orbits, and a black hole whose satellites had the same orbits would be said to have the same mass.

[mirimir]

> No mass escapes the event horizon. These are black holes after all :)

OK, that makes sense (for whatever that's worth).

But from the article:

> ... the latest discovery was produced by the merger of two relatively light black holes, 7 and 12 times the mass of the sun ... The merger left behind a final black hole 18 times the mass of the sun, meaning that energy equivalent to about 1 solar mass was emitted as gravitational waves during the collision.

And you say:

> the ultimate merger of the black holes releases the incredible amount of gravitational potential energy that existed between them when they were separate bodies.

I think that I get it. It's just that the stated masses of the merging black holes (7 and 12 solar masses) include gravitational potential energy. So the rest masses of the black holes didn't change, just their gravitational potential energy.

Yes?

[improbable22]

For black holes these aren't separate concepts. An apple and the earth each have rest mass, and gravity means there is also potential energy in their separation. But a black hole is an object with rest mass which is made purely out of gravity.

With two well-separated black holes it's reasonable to talk about each of their rest masses, and the potential, just like the apple. But as they get close and merge these ideas are hard to pin down, and stop being useful. Their shapes get blended together, and their horizons unite into one sphere, and for a while this wobbles around a lot before settling down. Some of the energy of its wobbling around departs as gravitational waves. Once it's settled down you can meaningfully talk about its rest mass again.

[mirimir]

OK, but what about the event horizon issue? So some stuff (GM) can escape the event horizon, but other stuff (matter, light) can't escape. So they must somewhat be separate concepts, because the event horizon affects them differently.

[improbable22]

No, not really. Just about everything we say about black holes is talking only about the exterior, the region of spacetime outside the horizon. The simulations through which we model the merging of two black holes only model the exterior of both. The curvature of this exterior is what gets all churned up during the collision, and some of it ends up travelling off as gravitational waves.

The fact that we can get away with studying only the exterior is really the same fact that the horizon is a horizon. The causality only goes one way, for everything not just for normal matter. And thus ignorance of the interior is no barrier to understanding the exterior.

[mirimir]

The article says basically: 7M BH + 12M BH -> 18M BH + 1M GW. But I'm getting the impression that this is misleading. Wouldn't it be more accurate to just say that the system had 19M before merger and 18M afterward?