[duncanawoods]

Yep, poorly expressed on my part. I meant it more that we can't really expect juniors to choose their own work and work off the own view of priorities. The discussion itself can be valuable but more often than not can't happen.

The pathological case is the newbie who fights every request to complete high priority work in preference to their own ideas when they don't have enough understanding of the business to have such strong opinions. They slow everything down and the continuous resistance can make them toxic to work with.

[PakG1]

These are excellent opportunities to sit down with the junior engineer and explain how organizations are complex, incomprehensible decisions are often made from a birds eye view with a longer-term view (in good organizations), and that we all need to be patient and teachable to grow. I've seen too many older people who have never gone through this mentorship, and they still can't understand why nobody listens to them or promotes them. They just become very angry toxic people. Nip it in the bud when they're young to help them get the right attitude of wanting to learn and wanting to collaborate with others; that could be the difference between someone becoming a productive and successful person later in life and someone becoming a bitter and unsuccessful person.

Yes, there are some young people who can't be helped. But I imagine most can be helped. I used to be young and arrogant too.

[duncanawoods]

I think quite a few successful founders fit in the "can't be helped" category so its not the end of the road. Those born to be the tip of a spear can be nearly unemployable as juniors.

[sprafa]

Feel like I struggle with exactly this - I had to get fired to get my attitude to change and I'm still working hard at it. Would definitely benefit from mentorship.