[oliwarner]

Opiate ODs are given naloxone in hospital. It's really effective but they feel like shit. If it's still in their system when they leave, and they try to use, they're more likely to double-dose to get the feeling back.

The problem with opiates (esp in the US) is they ones that are available are too strong and completely unforgiving. Fentanyl is an elephant gun but it's supplanting heroin on streets due to its prevalence (through overuse).

You've got to wonder what a regulated generally-available recreational opiate could do for street safety. It's not just about making sure of the purity, we need help people take the right dose of the right things, so they're not just taking however much of whatever is available.

That, and weaning. I'm sure a lot of these people would prefer not to feel like they do. Quitting opiates cold turkey is not easy.

[jrowley]

You can actually purchase the naloxone spray and carry it as a regular person. I've been thinking about getting some but I've heard gnarly stories about people reacting pretty intensely/dangerously after receiving the drug (eg attacking the person administering the drug)

[oliwarner]

Yeah the nasal spray should work within a couple of minutes. But even IM (5 minutes) is going to be pretty brutal.

You imagine going from a numb high... to feeling everything you were blocking out with opiates. Many of these people have legitimate pain. You'd probably not be too happy.

I'd certainly be wary about administering it to a stranger, without their consent and without knowing what their reaction would likely be. It's legally sketchy, especially if the drug is —as it is— not generally available (it's prescription-only in many places). Still, don't let me put you off saving somebody's life from an accidental overdose.

[SpelingBeeChamp]

> Many of these people have legitimate pain.

I think you meant "physical pain"

[krisives]

That sounds like a really complicated issue without a clear solution and no benefit to whoever solves it.

By comparison I think it would be easier to make a self driving car or automated robot that does most of what a heroin addict does.

Sounds terrible don’t care I’m out of sympathy for addicts in society.

[jrowley]

Like I said in my post, it's only a matter of time until you encounter it first hand, especially if you take a short stroll through select neighborhoods in most large cities. Its obvious you've thought about the issue but I urge you to engage with it by witnessing it first hand. Addicts are people too - they deserve compassion from society just as much as you or I do.

[krisives]

My sister is a heroin addict I've encountered enough =)

Also I have lived in Salem, Oregon look up it's statistics.

Just because my heart doesn't bleed for people who wouldn't do shit to help you doesn't mean I don't understand the problem.

[jrowley]

Fair enough - sounds like we may irreconcilable ethical differences. Maybe I'll get more exposed to the issue and more jaded over time. Thanks for explaining your perspective.

[krisives]

I got up to get something to eat and the restaurant I wanted to eat at couldn't open because a group of heroin addicts outside sleeping on the steps refused to move until they were given food.

That was about 40 minutes ago.

[SpelingBeeChamp]

The police don't care about that?

[vorotato]

seems like a power play the restaurant could win by grabbing some taco bell.

[oliwarner]

I think what is becoming clear now is that not all opiate addicts are recreational users. Many are victims of inappropriate prescriptions and lack of follow-up and supervision.

[krisives]

For how long though? Having watched it first hand you can make whatever excuse you want for the first use, bad boyfriend, pharma industry, etc.

My sister has been on heroin for probably 8 years now. She will call and ask for money and if anyone says no she spouts this same bullshit about it's not her fault etc. and she's an addict. We send her to rehab, she runs away, can't even tell you how many times I've seen it.

Her 4 kids are taken away from her she doesn't even attempt to visit them in any capacity.

Look close enough at a heroin addict you'll find a regular shitty person underneath it.

[oliwarner]

And that stinks. For everybody involved. You can only do your best.

But it sounds like you're writing them all off, writing the problem off, as something that's just unavoidable, untreatable. It can be both avoided and treated, it just doesn't always work.

[fjsolwmv]

Why didn't you notice the dirtiness before heroin?

[krisives]

The main point of my post was that them being shitty "because of heroine" is a false premise.

[cjhanks]

You're going to have to teach that automated robot to rob cars, prostitute, shoplift, neglect children, and beg for money on the streets too, if you want it to be realistic.

Even if you gave up on sympathy for addicts (and I understand, I was in Portland and have been along that hellish amtrak line) - the problem affects all of us, whether we like it or not.