[ufo]

The article has a quote that says exactly the opposite, btw.

> “Most homeless people I know aren’t homeless because they’re addicts,” said Tammy Stephen, 54, who lives at a homeless encampment in Seattle. “Most people are homeless because they can’t afford a place to live.”

[SilasX]

That is extremely implausible. What fraction of them would be able to put together the $1000/month (in the scenario of extreme home buildout)?

It's only true in the trivial, unhelpful sense of "if we got housing costs down to $10/month or free, then all the people there could afford a place." But when we talk about housing costs in general and policy around it, we mean something like getting rents down from $3000/month to $1000/month (from vast expansion of building), not some artificial number that no amount of expansion would (scalably) get.

And I don't think you can really take one homeless person living at an encampment, making a self-serving statement, as a source.

[cucuuc]

Did you read the article?

Do you have grad school experience? An $1800 grad stipend will help you understand the difference a few hundred bucks make.

[SilasX]

I read the part of it that was cited as the definitive refutation of all evidence of mental illness driving homelessness and explained why a single self serving source isn’t good enough.

I understand the difference that a few hundred bucks makes to a grad student. I don’t think those are the same people that become homeless in significant numbers and that’s why I’m objecting to the narrative: the person that just needs housing prices a few hundred bucks less is not the person going homeless. Those are different problems.

[dionidium]

Does that jibe with your intuition? Do you think if you made minimum wage (or some other very low wage) that you'd be homeless? Or do you think you'd find a way to live in a cheaper city? And if you don't think it would happen to you, then why do you think it's happening to other mentally normal, physically capable people?

[iamcasen]

If you have zero savings, and you lose your job, and you run out of money to pay rent, eventually get evicted, you will be homeless. It's really not a hard equation to understand. Once you're out on the streets, getting off them is very difficult. You need an address, and a phone number and a shower in order to apply for jobs. If you've been evicted before, landlords will be wary of you. You need support to get back on your feet, and this article is talking exactly about that: there is not enough support for the masses of homeless folks these days.

[dionidium]

It's really not a hard equation to understand.

It's harder than it looks, apparently, because millions of low earners -- i.e. almost all of them -- manage to avoid this outcome. I feel like poor people are discussed in the abstract by people who have never actually been poor. Homelessness is still not a normal outcome. Mentally and physically able people are not routinely homeless.

You can try to reason through this from first principles, I guess. That's a fun thing to do on a nerd message board. But I'm telling you that this is not what happens in actual practice.

[iamcasen]

Really? My brother is helpless. He searches for any menial job he can find, and there aren't ANY. When he does get a job, it is paying far below the amount needed to pay for housing.

If it wasn't for my mom, he would definitely be homeless. These situations are not contrived.

Furthermore, what if the problem is mental or physical disability? That's not a valid concern of yours? Maybe the homeless population is spiking because of medical costs. What if you have a medical condition that requires medication or you lose your mind? You lose your job, you lose your medication? I honestly feel you're either a troll, or you're just... obtuse?

For the record, I actually have been poor. My family was one shocking expense away from homelessness for much of my life. Luckily we hung in there by a thread. Clearly our country is full of folks like you who think that anyone who's homeless is a useless and easily discarded piece of trash.

[dionidium]

I think if you took a breath, you'd realize that I didn't say any of the things you seem to think I said.

We're a wealthy enough country to give assistance to anyone who needs it. There's no reason we shouldn't.

[jly]

Keep in mind there are thousands of low income earners throughout the country that only afford their housing because of low-income subsidized housing programs. These programs are income-based to set monthly cost at an affordable level - sometimes only a couple hundred dollars per month. These people would not be able to afford housing even in low-cost cities without assistance. In areas where these programs are not available or not in sufficient numbers, homeless situations can easily arise.

[dionidium]

Sure, and SSI/disability benefits play an enormous role here, too. But that actually bolsters my point, which is that homelessness isn't a routine outcome in the United States. A lot has to go wrong before you get there.

When you talk about poor people in the abstract, it's easy to contrive scenarios in which somebody loses their job at the gas station and is forced into homelessness. But in actual real life, that's rarely how it plays out.

[cucuuc]

I’ve moved 15 times to a different city (about half of them international). I’m in my early 30s.

Moving to a different city is hard. The older they get the harder it is. Most people can’t do it.

[dionidium]

Moving from San Francisco to New York is hard. Moving from San Francisco to a low-cost portion of the Central Valley is less hard (and an actual practical thing that lots of low earners probably do before they become homeless).

[cucuuc]

No. Moving from SF to NYC is not easier than moving to the Central Valley. The difficulties are different.

When I was six we moved to the easiest place to move to: early 90s greater Toronto Area. No crime. Lots of jobs. Lots of good will from the natives. It was tough.

The Central Valley is ravaged by unique social issues. To dismiss the issues because it’s cheap to live there is insane.