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by aaron-lebo 3150 days ago
Damore seems to be wanting a policy based on anecdotes because his reasoning is neither objective nor convincing.

Not asking for a phd thesis, just asking for something better than a senior paper. That's not a high bar if your goal is to really change things, is it?
1 comments
manigandham 3150 days ago
So you just randomly said something else.

His argument is clearly stated right there and quoted by both of us, that was the point I asked about to which you just sidestepped... you are free to say you're unconvinced of the statement but what is your argument against?

You can ask him for more info and/or and do your own research too, but his paper is what it is. Why not debate it instead of saying that it's not good enough? How does that further anything?

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aaron-lebo 3150 days ago
Claiming your argument is objective doesn't make it so. He can state that his goal is objectivity through reduced empathy, but if you don't provide objective evidence (he does not), it doesn't mean anything.
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manigandham 3150 days ago
That's fair. So you don't buy overall argument from Paul Bloom, who's a Yale psychologist and seems to have done the research for what it's worth.

I'd say that removing anecdotes and emotions for better policy is rather common sense and often used in many military and business practices. In fact it's even a common TV trope.

Either way, and more importantly, I'm happy to actually have a discussion that could potentially lead to the proper objective research rather than stifling any possible discourse.

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aaron-lebo 3150 days ago
No, I just don't believe you can cite an article and suggest that's evidence for your claims without explaining why. Bloom might work at Yale, but that doesn't mean he's right (psychology - that's a quickly moving field) or that his article supports Damore's. If he really wanted a useful discussion, he could have done that for his readers, that's how basic research works.

Bloom even says:

But even if you accept this argument, there is a lot more to life than public policy.

and

I used to believe this, but I am no longer sure.

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manigandham 3150 days ago
An argument regardless of (or even without) evidence would does not mean it cannot be discussed. That is the fundamental issue of the original post.

However, you are clearly misquoting that article and Bloom's statements, why not just use the actual entire paragraph:

"But even if you accept this argument, there is a lot more to life than public policy. Consider our everyday interactions with our parents and children, with our partners and friends. Consider also certain special relationships, such as that between doctor and patient or therapist and client. Empathy might not scale up to the policy level, but it seems an unalloyed good when it comes to these intimate relationships—the more the better.

I used to believe this, but I am no longer sure."

Bloom's statement is that life includes things beyond policy like personal relationships, where more empathy is always seen as good, however he is no longer sure about that and then goes on to describe why in much more detail.

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aaron-lebo 3150 days ago
Yes, and if a scientist is choosing words like "no longer sure", that's not a really strong indicator of belief in it, certainly not a good argument for policy.

If an argument doesn't have evidence, it has less value than something that does, that's why the way people are still talking about it like it's something more interesting than a 4chan post is confusing.

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oj-lappi 3150 days ago
A) that wasn't your point.

Your point was "Damore seems to be wanting a policy based on anecdotes because his reasoning is neither objective nor convincing."

And I don't see how that follows. I think we can at least agree that he's not arguing FOR what he's explicitly AGAINST.

B) "It doesn't mean anything"

See A). The memo may or may not include any facts undisputed or otherwise, but we can certainly get a feeling for its intent, which at least part of was: to criticize Googles policies and possibly open up a conversation about them.

I don't think Google handled that very well.

The way Google has steered advertising on youtube [1,2,3] also makes me think this suit is onto something. At least a better look.

1. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/21/youtube-g...

2. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/prageru-sues-you...

3. Video by h3h3 I can't find right now

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