[iAMAGuest]

> In short; 'JR' has better success in business when he can under-pay his workers and ignore their health and safety needs and human rights.

Being anti-union doesn't mean favoring slave labor or breaking laws. Many rights of workers are protected by legislation (depending where in the world you live), and unionism doesn't mean higher wages.

[jadell]

There's an entire holiday in the US, Labor Day, that specifically marks the struggle (including deaths!) of members of labor unions literally putting their lives on the line to secure those rights.

[iAMAGuest]

> There's an entire holiday in the US, Labor Day

For those of us whom are not American, there is a similar day strangely called Labour Day, which is celebrated world wide for similar reasons, Small world hey :)

But in context what the unions did was important, it doesn't mean that they are needed, relevant, or beneficial in current day. We celebrate Xmas, but that doesn't mean that we have a guy wearing a Santa (non-christian) uniform everyday.

[jadell]

> We celebrate Xmas, but that doesn't mean that we have a guy wearing a Santa (non-christian) uniform everyday.

But everyday we enjoy things like child labor laws, paid time off, safe working conditions, limits on shift-lengths, overtime pay, maternity/paternity leave, and myriad others.

[cannonedhamster]

We do in the US? Really? Salaried workers in tech routinely have 24-hour shifts without notice or compensation, especially when tied up in equity. I'd say if anything, worker rights have gotten further eroded with the loss of union power, add to that pay in most fields hasn't kept up with inflation, there's no paternity leave, more jobs being created are pushing education, retirement, healthcare, etc onto the worker, further eroding their wages just to keep their current job. Add to that the number of jobs being lost to automation, and workers really are not in a great spot, especially going forward, there's no way the current employment force can outstrip what a robot can do. It makes little sense to hire anything but contract employees at a certain point. Pretty soon you'll see micro-contracts to repair the bots, with a race to the bottom on price. I think that there's a massive market correction due to the employee-employer relationship.

[iAMAGuest]

Yes you/we do, for that we should be appreciative. But that doesn't speak as to the relevance of unions today.

[jackvalentine]

> Many rights of workers are protected by legislation

How do you think those rights found their way in to the legislation, and remain there?

[iAMAGuest]

> How do you think those rights found their way in to the legislation, and remain there?

Look I not blind to the history, and protectionisms which came about from unionism. But that is a common retort, but also a bit of a straw man argument.

[jackvalentine]

> but also a bit of a straw man argument.

I wasn't aware I was making an argument.

[iAMAGuest]

> I wasn't aware I was making an argument.

Ok that makes sense now.

[jackvalentine]

Would you like to answer my question?

[cortic]

how else are we to interpret a "corrosive us-against-them dynamic" Unions don't get involved unless there is violation of workers rights. And believe me anti-union does mean anti-workers-rights.

"Many rights of workers are protected by legislation" - sure but employees are rarely able take the case to court without union backing.

[iAMAGuest]

> "Many rights of workers are protected by legislation" - sure but employees are rarely able take the case to court without union backing.

In several countries where I have lived you don't need a court for industrial conflicts, there are arbitrators, mediators, and small courts which deal with such items.

[cortic]

But without representation and legal advice such 'small courts' often rule on the side of money. Even before such a hearing can take place the employee can be subject to pressure and bullying and without representation in disciplinary meetings and the like they often end up quitting, or accepting treatment/warnings/disciplinary action they do not deserve. Without a union it will always be a David and Goliath story, but with a much more realistic ending.

[bobbyi_settv]

> Many rights of workers are protected by legislation

That legislation exists because of unions