[jsnar]

Using Electron is a bad idea: it's not secure. Electron has many security vulnerabilities. The latest version is still based on old Chromium (58 & 59) so it inherits many of the security vulnerabilities published in Chromium 60, 61 and 62

[kijiki]

Sure, but it doesn't pull HTML or Javascript from servers, it is all packaged along with the native Electron runtime. Exploiting a Javascript vulnerability is an absurd waste of time when you could just add a backdoor or whatever to the native code.

[jsnar]

It's not as simple as you thought. Consider a bug in the image decoding library Chromium used that can be exploited by simply sending a crafted image in the chat.

[halayli]

same logic can be applied to a native app that is using libpng and an attacker exploits the lib in one way or another.

[munin]

things you can do in the native app to mitigate this risk:

* run rendering in a sandbox

* closely monitor your deps for vulnerabilities and ship patches as quickly as possible

* choose deps with a better security track record, when possible

* independently scan, test, and validate the deps you bring in

things you can do in an electron app:

* pray

[Jahava]

In all fairness...

> run rendering in a sandbox

Most major browsers, including Edge and Chrome, do this and are really good at it.

> closely monitor your deps for vulnerabilities and ship patches as quickly as possible

Most major browsers do this too, and they have well-established update pipelines that can patch vulnerabilities in short order.

> choose deps with a better security track record, when possible

Most major browsers do this (e.g., "boringssl").

> independently scan, test, and validate the deps you bring in

Most major browsers do this as part of QA and vulnerability scanning.

> things you can do in an electron app: > * pray

* leverage all of the work that thousands at Microsoft, Google, Mozilla, etc., put into deploying what I suspect are the most heavily-attacked, heavily-scrutinized, and heavily-audited software platforms in existence.

Not that I'm specifically advocating web apps over native apps, but I don't think your list does a good job outlining their advantages.

[flukus]

That's likely to get fixed quickly and I can just apt-get upgrade. With electron we have to wait for google to fix it in chrome, wait for electron to update the chrome version or backport the patch, wait for the app developer to update their version of electron and then update it on your machine.

[jsnar]

See here for the security issues published in Chrome stable releases in those versions:

https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2017/07/stable-channel...

https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2017/09/stable-channel...

https://chromereleases.googleblog.com/2017/10/stable-channel...

[halayli]

browser security vulnerabilities are expensive and heavily scrutinized. Just because they are on top of it for reporting vulnerabilities and fixes so that you become aware of it doesn’t make the alternatives more secure. You just wouldn’t be aware of them which is more dangerous.

[orange8]

what do you suggest they should they use instead

[polpo]

They could use NW.js instead, which stays up-to-date with the latest Chromium version, including security updates. They usually release on the same day as Chromium. https://nwjs.io/blog/

[baby]

This is interesting, I feel like NW.js has lost the war against Electron, but I haven't closely been following the topic. Can anyone summarize the latest common opinion on the subject?

[polpo]

There was a period in late 2014-early 2015 where NW.js stagnated, but since then it's been very actively developed. I found this 2016 comparison pretty even-handed and comprehensive; it'd be nice to see an updated version for 2017. http://tangiblejs.com/posts/nw-js-and-electron-compared-2016...

[orange8]

I suspect most electron devs haven't even heard of NW.js even though it came first, so there wouldn't even be any comparison to begin with.

[orange8]

Good answer. Some are just good at putting down solutions, and don't even have the courage to suggest alternatives.

[qznc]

Wire is a competitive messenger. One employee there writes a native app with Rust and Gtk. Seems to be something like a voluntary 20% protect though.

https://github.com/wireapp/coax

[orange8]

So you are suggesting they drop a battle-tested, production ready solution currently powering hundreds of apps (https://electron.atom.io/apps/) for one in beta that the developers warn in large capital letters "use at your own risk, still under development"?!

[superkuh]

They could try not writing it in javascript and actually make a native application instead hiding behind semantics.

[orange8]

Still not anwering the question though, are you?

[StreamBright]

Write native code without Electron, Chrome, other random attack vectors?

[orange8]

In what, specifically? Name just one platform without these "random attack vectors".

[jsnar]

submitted issue for this: https://github.com/WhisperSystems/Signal-Desktop/issues/1635