[majormajor]

What if you don't have the hat but don't favor liberal immigration policies? Would expressing this political stance be taken as a personal attack?

If so, that level of "we must stamp out the heresy!" is generally associated with more extreme religious types, not supposedly rational open-minded people. And that's where the danger lies: once you stop permitting the expression of contrary views, your ability to argue against them will atrophy.

[hasbroslasher]

The problem, of course, is that there's no way to tell from outward appearances what someone believes. A good example of this is the appropriation of Satanic imagery in rock music: few of these bands are theistic or LaVeyan Satanists, most of them are just doing it to send a message. The connotation of pentagrams and upside down crosses is "watch out, I'm evil, I like evil things, etc". Conservative Christians, however, often don't realize this and legitimately believe these people to be agents of the Devil, when usually they're just trying to provoke a reaction.

There's a layer of semiotics that's important to any outward appearance. Wearing a swastika but saying "Nonono it's a Hindu symbol of fertility" probably wouldn't go over well. Nor would saying "Well I didn't like the Holocaust but I really did think the Nazis had some good ideas about things". Similarly, wearing a hammer and sickle shirt will get you into trouble in more conservative places.

The MAGA hat's obviously on a different level than that, but it does explain some of the reasoning. That hat in particular represents (sometimes fanatical) appreciation for a man that liberals believe is doing immense harm to our nation, it's citizens and its image via racist, reactionary and backwards-looking politics. Because of far-right extremists, I get scared when I see that hat, to me it signals some form of white supremacy that I need to stay away from. So yes, wearing it at work might make people uncomfortable.

[majormajor]

I completely agree that trolling your coworkers is not good behavior, and I also oppose the idiots playing nazi for similar reasons, as it's bad for the level of public discourse. But I don't think saying "I think we should be restricting immigration from some areas so we don't end up with isolated, un-integrated communities that might lead to extremism[1] like elsewhere" fits the same bill, even though my personal approach to the problem would be different.

If that would hurt someone's feelings so much to be a "hostile work environment" then that's the same problem shown by right-wingers getting incensed over Colin Kaepernick. There are a lot of publications out there, left and right, that try to fan flames more than they try to inform, and we need to get past that.

But, in the short term, I'd take it as a kindness if we could just stop talking politics at work. I don't want to hear you whining twenty minutes every day about Trump, and that's coming from someone mostly in the "the democrats are too conservative and centrist" camp.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/08/31/the-other-fran... - very long, but a very interesting look at some potential perils

[hasbroslasher]

I've actually come to hate the "whine about Trump lunch". After a while it's just rehashing old truths and there's no novelty in the discussion. Just weird, random venting. Then again, I do have coworkers who have been publicly called terrorists because of their race. To them, Trump represents a much greater evil than he does to me, because he literally does that kind of thing on television. To people with illegal Mexican family members, he literally is suggesting that we should split their family apart. It's not as much about conservatism broadly as it is about this one specific guy who is poorly behaved and downright mean.

[zeveb]

> That hat in particular represents (sometimes fanatical) appreciation for a man that liberals believe is doing immense harm to our nation, it's citizens and its image via racist, reactionary and backwards-looking politics.

Of course, many people believed that the previous president was doing immense harm to our nation, its citizens and the world at large … but I don't think many were fired for wearing their Hope & Change or Yes We Can hats …

> Because of far-right extremists, I get scared when I see that hat, to me it signals some form of white supremacy that I need to stay away from. So yes, wearing it at work might make people uncomfortable.

And yet people have no problem whatsoever bringing stuff expressing the opposite viewpoint into the workplace. It's normal to hear people expressing moderately- and far-left opinions in the workplace. It's not to hear them express even centrist-right opinions.

FWIW, I don't subscribe to pretty much anything a MAGA hat conveys, and I didn't vote for the current president.

[mcguire]

"but I don't think many were fired for wearing their Hope & Change or Yes We Can hats …"

http://www.businessinsider.com/voted-for-obama-youre-fired-2...

http://www.allgov.com/news/unusual-news/another-case-of-bein...

http://httpjournalsaolcomjenjer6steph.blogspot.com/2013/02/f...

https://www.salon.com/2012/11/20/8_bosses_who_screwed_their_...

http://joemygod.blogspot.com/2013/01/utah-fired-for-supporti...

Oh, and a bonus:

http://shoebat.com/2015/04/28/teacher-in-georgia-declares-to...

[hasbroslasher]

I mean, I'm not saying anyone should be fired, but people should understand the context of their fashion choices and the persona they cultivate. Aside: conservatives like to say "life's not fair" until it comes to things like this.

FWIW I occasionally express centrist positions at my left-leaning job, I don't get fired or reprimanded. Nor do I get reprimanded for advocating for socialism. I don't think anyone would be either for expressing conservative positions. Maybe I'm naive.

They might, however, face social sanctions or get in an awkward debate if they were arguing that two people on my team should not be allowed in this country as immigrants, or that my gay coworkers shouldn't have the same rights as everyone else. There's obviously going to be a clash of beliefs and they should recognize that. Similarly, if any of us were to make sweeping generalizations about white people, it'd be awkward for the white people on the team, and it might spur a big debate. No one likes to feel attacked, especially at work, so we learn to feel out what's allowed or what's out of bounds and then work with that.

Without a doubt, if one of my coworkers came to me and said "Look, I like working with you but you have to stop shit talking conservatives at work" I'd be more mindful of it and avoid making it awkward. I'm not sure why these men feel that they aren't able to do that.

[Blackthorn]

"don't favor liberal immigration policy" is not the same thing as Trump policy.

[CalChris]

It's not like I have much of respect for out conservatives but I have even less for closeted conservatives when I eventually find out.

Got the hat? Wear it and defend your ideas. I am open minded and rational, or at least I think I am. But if you think I'm stamping out heresy because I don't tolerate bigotry, tough.

BTW, my paternal grandfather was an illegal. Paid his taxes. Stayed out of jail. The grand kids, at least on this half, have been amazingly successful and contributed a lot to the economy, society and our national defense.

[majormajor]

I don't have the hat or the beliefs, but way to illustrate that you can't even imagine someone being able to understand opposing positions. You certainly don't sound open minded or rational, since you're assuming bigotry could be the only possible root belief for similar policy goals.

How you want to react is your business, but again, you should be aware that it's going to impact how effective your fight against those views is.

[CalChris]

No, I'm not going to imagine anything. You actually have to say what you stand for.

[stale2002]

> I have even less for closeted conservatives when I eventually find out.

> I don't tolerate bigotry, tough.

> No, I'm not going to imagine anything.

You just did, man.

I'd be afraid to express my views around you, as anything that approaches conservatism will be labeled as "Bigotry", and therefore "not tolerated".

Whos knows what opinions you are throwing under the bus. Best to not risk it.

It is perfectly rational for someone to not express their opinions around someone who is going to misinterpret them.

[CalChris]

Sorry cupcake, but you should be afraid to express your views around me because I will force you to defend them. After y'all voted in Cheeto, no more Mister Nice Guy.

[stale2002]

Or maybe you'll be in a position of power and fire someone for it. Whos knows!

Thats the problem that people are dealing with. That you will incorrectly assume things about what someone believes, and then use whatever organizational power you have against them.

But i guess "freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences" therefore they deserve to be fired for your incorrect assumptions about their beliefs, right? (even though this is illegal)

There is no way of knowning what you will or will not do or what powers you will or will not use against them.

[colanderman]

If your political belief, implemented, would directly and immediately destroy my or my loved ones' lives, keep it the hell out of the workplace.