[jbooth]

Ha.

A friend of mine worked for Raytheon right out of school. Really good paycheck.

At the end of his first couple months, his boss was flabbergasted because he insisted on actually getting something done every week. He was on the fast track immediately.

And, by all accounts, Raytheon is significantly less crooked than Halliburton.

[yummyfajitas]

I take it you don't favor giving no-bid military contracts to politically favored service providers at above-market rates? In that case, why do you favor doing so in education?

[jbooth]

When did you stop beating your wife?

If you'd like to rephrase your question, I'll respond.

EDIT: Ok, I'll respond. For both you and me, a position as a math teacher would involve taking less money, working harder, and contributing more to society than we do now. I don't feel the need to kick public servants in the teeth that you apparently do. If you're outraged by government spending, go after the big dollars that don't accomplish anything first. Then you can worry about small dollars for people who do accomplish things.

[yummyfajitas]

a) As I already explained to you yesterday, teachers don't work as hard as other professionals (and certainly less than I do right now): http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2008/03/art4full.pdf

b) Teacher and other govt employee pay is hardly a small portion of state and municipal budgets, and the upcoming pension crisis is going to be a huge problem for the entire country. This is not a small problem.

c) I have criticized other big spending as well (e.g., assorted bailouts).

Also, you seem to have no compunctions against "kicking public servants in the teeth": http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1557874 You only seem to object when the "public servants" in question are your political allies.

[jbooth]

I object to the blanket characterization of defense contractors as public servants.

I mean, you wanna complain about crooked unions -- let's take the dollar figures, multiply by about a million (literally), and there you are with the defense contractors. And most of them never even deliver a product, or deliver a crappy unwanted product years late and billions over budget. If teachers operated like defense contractors, we'd have spent a trillion dollars over the last 10 years on a system to blast knowledge into kids brains using lasers and have nothing to show for it.

It's not about political allies. Eisenhower told us the same thing, there's a republican-approved stance for you.

I mean, geez, I'm all about more efficiency in government spending. I'll go for the higher dollar figures for things that don't provide anything for the country first, and get to small dollar figures in the education system about 10th.

Also. I think, not to put too fine a point on it, but you're likely either ignorant or lying when you claim that you work harder than teachers. You're on hacker news right now. Teachers have 6 hours of teaching with 3 minute breaks, followed by curriculum development and grading. I don't care what the study says, that's more work than the overwhelming majority of office jobs.

[yummyfajitas]

let's take the dollar figures, multiply by about a million (literally), and there you are with the defense contractors.

A quick googling shows that military and educational spending are on par with each other (about $500B). [edit: circa 2004-2005]

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/fed/10facts/index.html#not...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Defense_Spending_Tren...

But I guess the department of education is lying just like the BLS?

I'll go for the higher dollar figures for things that don't provide anything for the country first, and get to small dollar figures in the education system about 10th.

Really? It looks to me as if you are defending wasteful spending on education rather than simply criticizing it less than other wasteful spending: "...as long as the teachers' unions are the only ones sticking up for teachers...they're doing more good than harm."

I don't care what the study says...

That seems to be the trend here.

[jbooth]

500 is the new 700? We definitely spend over 500 billion on the military.

For the last 8 years or so, national education spending has been pretty much flatlined, or even declining in real dollars. Military spending has been skyrocketing.

And yes. I don't believe kicking teachers in the teeth is a good idea. If you have a math degree, you can get paid twice as much to work on some non-functional crap for a defense contractor as you can as a teacher. That's not the same thing. Defense is far more bloated. Meanwhile, we're sliding on every international metric of education. I'd suggest reading Kristof today if you want some neat statistics.