[jojoo]

Kilpatrick contra Montessori: I'd call the 70 page critique quite specific. Quote: "The Montessori child learns self-reliance by free choice in relative isolation from the directress. He learns in an individualistic fashion to respect the rights of his neighbors. The kindergarten child learns conformity to social standards mainly through social pressure focused and brought to bear in a kindly spirit by the kindergartner." Clearly the writings of a hater ;)

  > There isn't much difference between the insights of Montessori and Piaget.

How a child learns, what big influence self interest and self control are is quite similar between the both. I personally also agree. The immense impact and usefulness of Piagets stages of cognitive development are orginally his and not to be found in Montessoris Teachings.

  > Piaget was a great scientist who conducted systematic experiments with countless children. Your claim that he only observed his own 3 children is a lie.

Well, it's a hyperbole based on Ginsburg & Opper, 2004. I included the hyperbole b/c i thought it might come up after i brought up Piagets name. His well-respected and often built upon work is often criticized because of lack of initial sample size, reliance on language as critical examination tool and some stages don't develop in all and/or most children like he predicted.

His work was still a giant leap.

  > That last reference you provide is some obscure German PhD thesis which does not reference Montessori's work at all; it has a major focus on teaching mentally retarded children, as well as teaching mathematics out of books to children older than the ones that go to Montessori schools (starting at age 3).

The Author of this thesis is one of the most respected scientists in germany relating to pre-numeric Mathematics. Teachers for mentally retarded children had to think about pre-numeric mathematics long before it became fashionable for younger kids. She based her work on Piaget and Vygotsky. Its quite my point that she didn't base it on Montessori.

[mkempe]

More nonsense.

Evidence contra your second claim, that Piaget's "stages of cognitive development orginally his and not to be found in Montessoris Teachings": Montessori's theory of the sensitive stages [1] and the planes of development [2].

I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who willfully spreads lies (malicious "hyperbole") and poppycock.

[1] http://rmschool.org/content/sensitive-periods

[2] https://ami-global.org/montessori/quotes/four-planes-develop...

[dang]

You've crossed into incivility in this thread and broken the HN guidelines by calling names. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong someone else is. Indeed, assuming your position is correct, it's important not to discredit it by commenting like this.

Would you mind reading the site guidelines and following them scrupulously when commenting here? We're trying for a better outcome than scorched earth followed by heat death, which seems to be the default for internet forums.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[mkempe]

Ok.

My father worked with Piaget, so I lack tolerance for someone who deliberately spreads lies about Piaget's work.

[dang]

I can certainly understand that. Still, patient correction is probably a better way to honour him.

[mkempe]

Thank you, that's a helpful perspective.

[jojoo]

I said: " The immense impact and usefulness of Piagets stages of cognitive development are orginally his and not to be found in Montessoris Teachings"

Montessori via your source on mathematics: "Mathematics: Formation of the concepts of quantity and operations (addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division) from the uses of concrete learning materials. (birth to 6)" Quite general.

Piaget has a few sub-skills concerning Quantities:

  * conservation (xxx has the same amount of x'es as x x x)
  * classification (x is a letter and lowercase)
  * seriation (x X y Y could be orderes XY; xy, but also Xx, Yy)
  * transitivity and others

This insights are very useful if you want to make - for an example - a pre-numeric mathematical game concerning quantities.

Montessori does not provide such deep insights into pre-numeric mathematics.

[mkempe]

Rubbish.

You pretend to "infer", from a one-sentence description of how the Montessori method uses concrete materials to teach the basic arithmetic operations, that somehow other mathematical principles are absent from the Montessori pedagogy.

Of course these principles are demonstrated and taught in Montessori schools, also with concrete learning materials.

You may not know much about Montessori, or you may have an axe to grind, or ...? Either way, you should stop making demonstrably false statements about her pedagogy (and about Piaget).