[it_learnses]

Scientists like Ng ought to consider the repercussions of their actions when they decide to aid Chinese companies, and by extension, the Chinese govt with cutting edge research. They are basically collaborating with the enemy that stands against pretty much everything that the west granted them (scientists like Ng who were born here and given the opportunities).

[dang]

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15569238 and marked it off-topic.

[dforrestwilson]

? What exactly did the west grant them? They're catching up after decades of communism, and creeping towards becoming a dictatorship for Xi. That will likely negatively impact their growth far more than the actions (or inactions) of the West.

[abecedarius]

It’s not that China’s economic growth is bad for the west (I think that’s good on its own terms); it’s that tyranny is bad for us all. Helping to entrench it is very short-sighted. There has never been a modern AI-assisted tyranny before, for one thing, and we don’t know how stable that might become. It’s reckless to expect it to just fall apart like the Soviet Union, especially since the rulers consciously learned from that history.

[it_learnses]

Ng was born and educated in the west. That's the point I'm making.

[caio1982]

...and that’s an irrelevant point.

[denzil_correa]

Does this mean we should all stop using Chinese products like most of the phones made in the USA?

[timthelion]

Well, Americans probably should stop using cell phones made in China. The lack of domestic manufacturing capability seems to really put Americans at China's mercy.

[dang]

This comment breaks the HN guidelines, which ask you precisely not to do this, i.e. take threads in generic and inflammatory directions.

We're not interested in ideological battle or flamewars here, and certainly not nationalistic ones.

Edit: since you've done this repeatedly, I've banned this account.

[timthelion]

I believe that your pro-western nationalism is evil, because this dualism fails to see the nuance, that american corporatism is just as bad as Chinese state socialism. I up-voted you, however, because you stated your opinion in the open, rather than simply implying it. I'd far rather people like you be open in their belief that this is some sort of situation where one country wins and the other loses.

I, however, believe that whoever wins this battle will be wealthy and powerful. Who-ever wins the race is the enemy. Not just the Chinese, but anyone who attains singularity is the enemy of the rest of humanity.

Even if that AI is open-source, unless there is a clear way for every person to have some level of control over the hardware that it runs on, the AI becomes the enemy of all people who will be disenfranchised by it.

[elefanten]

This phrasing was really blunt and came off a bit rude. But there is a point there that shouldn't be written off. As far as choosing who the biggest and most powerful entity on the planet is, would you rather have one with more or less respect for the rights of individuals?

Because, so far in human history, individual rights-based political formulations are the only ones that prevent arbitrary atrocities from being perpetrated on citizens. Yes, American corporatism is brutal. American corporatism bounded by American democracy, imperfect as it is, is still vast leagues better (read: safer for global population) than nationalist authoritarian dictatorship. No matter how technocratically efficient that dictatorship has been in recent decades.

In short, if you're worried about singularities, aren't you worried about the priorities and command structure of the entities most likely to achieve it? About what options they consider to be "on the table"?

[timthelion]

Of course I am worried about the command structure of the entities most likely to acheive singularity, but this is all the more reason to fight against a nationalist, McCarthyist, "you traitor!" attitude which would lead America, in its competition with China, away from its liberal ideals and towards a more efficient command structure such as fascism or national corporatism.

[logiclion]

I always find the phrase on the back on the dollar bill oddly satisfying in these types of conversations about singularity/utopia: "out of many, one".

[logiclion]

The nice thing about american "corporatism" is that if one "corporate culture" is bad, if you are able, you can leave. Thats a fairly simple & straightforward nuance for me. As far as "people like you..." statement, you literally just described a situation where theres a battle and someone will win. It'll just end up in some kind of singularity? Did you mean to lump yourself in implicitly with the group you just accused this person of "being in"? "Pro-western nationalism" lol

[xiphias]

China started selling U.S. bonds and plans to create a Yuan-oil exchange market and is building a massive army to defend it. I wish good things are coming out, but U.S. leadership won't just stand watching China taking over the power over world leadership (conflicts are already happening in North Korea). While I respect all the amazing hard working scientists, and the developments, I fear that the biggest problem now is the currency war that can lead to WWIII.

[xenihn]

This is honestly one of the better posts I've seen on HN. I never really thought about this, and I agree 100%