[ImSkeptical]

Threatening a country that is threatening us isn't exactly genocidal. Killing families of terrorists is deeply immoral and murderous - but it's also in keeping with current U.S. policy (see Anwar al-Awlaki - both Trump and Obama administrations have killed Awlaki's children). Terrorists aren't a race though, so wanting to kill them and their families isn't genocide.

[craftyguy]

Don't confuse yourself. It's not the millions of people El Cheeto would kill in a nuclear strike on DPRK that are threatening the US, it is effectively one trump-like individual in charge of DPRK that is threatening the US.

[ImSkeptical]

I'm not confused on this point. The people of North Korea have devastatingly unfortunate circumstances, and the thought that, in addition to living such grim lives, they may have to die to ensure our safety - it's unfair beyond the power of words to describe.

And yet, if I had to choose between a million North Koreans, hundreds of thousands of South Koreans, and tens of thousands of American soldiers, dying in a pre-emptive war - versus all that plus a few million more Americans and North Koreans dying in a nuclear exchange... Well, it's an obvious choice.

North Korea is approaching the point of being able to achieve mutually assured destruction. They could build a cobalt bomb, or spend a decade building ICBMS, but relatively soon the problem will be intractable and we will play nuclear chicken with an unstable murderous dictatorial regime.

[wildmusings]

Government has consequences. That's why democracy is so important. This is especially true with regards to foreign policy. If a country threatens another such that the threatened country's only viable defense is to attack the civilians of the aggressor, that would be a totally legitimate tactic of war.

Taking out North Korea's nuclear capability while preventing a counter attack on South Korea will probably involve the deaths of many innocent North Koreans, since North Korean artillery is spread widely throughout the southern part of the country. That is tragic, and no small part of why we've allowed this madness to go on for so long. But at some point a people must protect their security, and do what must be done.

[craftyguy]

> That's why democracy is so important

Too bad there is not a true democracy in the US.

> Taking out North Korea's nuclear capability while preventing a counter attack on South Korea will probably involve the deaths of many innocent North Koreans,

How about we concentrate on their leadership, instead of 'spraying and praying'?

[wildmusings]

That's not so easy. Decapitating the regime, even if we could reliably kill all the key officials, does not necessarily prevent a lengthy barrage of artillery on South Korea.

[KGIII]

The US has never had a true democracy, and this is by design.

[KGIII]

And you wonder why your side keeps losing elections.

If you're curious, I am on the left.