[lutorm]

I made the argument that women are less INTERESTED

But interest is an outcome, influenced for example by the presence or absence of role models or the impression of certain fields as not welcoming to women.

If I remember the state of things correctly, the gender imbalance of interest in science is not present at early ages but develops around junior high ages when kids start picking up on which jobs or fields are "appropriate" for males vs females.

I don't think anyone is saying the gender imbalance is purely a result of hiring discrimination (although it likely plays a role), but there are clearly other biases in force that directly arise from the gender imbalance. How do you propose getting rid of those biases except by trying to "prime the pump"?

[jasonx1e]

>> influenced for example by the presence or absence of role models or the impression of certain fields as not welcoming to women.

Sure it can play a part in the outcome, but that in no way limits anyone from still pursuing the field, and hence there is still equality of opportunity. The latter is what (hopefully) any rational human being wants.

I'm not against more outreach efforts or helping encourage more girls to pursue STEM. I personally volunteer at a science museum and have in the past been a TA for high school STEM MOOCs.

What I am against is accusing the existing system for discriminating against females (unless you provide direct evidence that gender is the sole cause of the outcome inequality, which I will be happy to agree if the evidence is convincing) and then continuously lowering the bar for entry for females (thus achieving diversity but undermining meritocracy) - which is what I see happening right now.

[belorn]

Influenced has two sides, negative and positive. You have to account for both when establishing a cause for an outcome.

Just the other day I heard two kids around the age 10, a boy and a girl, talk about a life as a programmer. The boy wanted to make a AI so he could become rich and the girl wanted to make a AI to help make her social life better. The answers could not be more stereotypical gender defined. Men are valued and gain social rank through the pursuit of money so thats what is being imprinted onto the boy, women for their social skills.

A world where both women and men is valued based on the same ability, that is the ability to get money, would be a world where you would have 50/50 in all professions.