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by foldr
3158 days ago
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The history of the word 'democracy' is irrelevant. I was using the word in its current sense (as I do with most words!) > I think you're staking out a very strange linguistic position if you think those countries, which self-identified as democracies both before and after the change, and which everyone referred to as democracies both before and after the change, could only correctly be referred to as "democracies" after they enacted universal suffrage. I think you're staking out a very strange political position if you're suggesting that it wouldn't be undemocratic to disenfranchise women, African-Americans and people who don't own significant amounts of property. Self-identification is not a reliable guide. The DPRK presumably self-identifies as democratic. Now, if you think that (say) the USA should still qualify as an 'imperfect democracy' following a massive disenfranchisement of the kind I just described, then I can't really argue with that, since there's no hard and fast rule for deciding when an imperfect democracy stops being a democracy at all. But personally I would not call it a democracy any longer in that circumstance. |
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But that's not my political position. I assume for the sake of argument that my political position is the same as yours.
> if you're suggesting that it wouldn't be undemocratic to disenfranchise women, African-Americans and people who don't own significant amounts of property.
Of course it would. I wonder if this is tripping you up: a democracy can do undemocratic things. Doing undemocratic things did not cause Athens, the United States, or dozens of other countries to not be democracies.
> The history of the word 'democracy' is irrelevant.
The history of the word is one of several ways (which you are just not hearing) of demonstrating why what you're arguing is not just wrong, it is nonsensical.
> But personally I would not call it a democracy any longer in that circumstance.
At this point, I have to say, you're welcome to your own definition of 'democracy' or anything else. Use it in good health.