[5706906c06c]

38, two kids and a wife. Have been living in a 900SQ/FT apt, I don't know how much longer I can take this before rage quitting and relocating somewhere else (don't know where). The sad part, as a ethnic-minority, I have just found our community for my kids, etc. It would be really tragic if I have to tear my kids away from that.

Don't get me wrong, my daily 30 minute commute on BART isn't the worst. The worst part is that I make $185,000-$238,000 (with bonus and all) and still can't afford to buy a home because I can't compete with other investors that have deep pockets filled with cash, not to mention buying a semi-decent home in a semi-OK neighborhood sets you easily back by $850K-$1.2MM. It's insane! The best I'm able to do is to pay for a $3550/mo rent and tuck away as much money as I can while providing for the wife and kids, which isn't the cheapest.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Back to work.

Edit: Armenian. Also, I'll check myself, there are others in far worse financial/living condition in the Bay Area. Comparatively speaking, I have it easier than most.

[DarronWyke]

As someone who's originally from California (not the Bay Area, though), let me tell you this: the cost of living, for what you get, is astronomically high compared to other places.

Here in North Texas, I make around 100k/yr, and due to cost of living I can squirrel a lot of that away. We have no state income tax, and our property tax, while high, isn't nearly as high as California's (and will vary depending upon which county you live in -- massively expanding counties like Collin will charge more than rural ones like Johnson).

With that income I was easily able to buy a ~1800sqft two story house in a good neighborhood. My total consistent expenses for each month are maybe 2/3s that of your rent, which includes non-consumables like mortgage, insurance, utilities, etc.

In all of this, of course, I don't have kids and my wife doesn't (currently) work. If your spouse does work, then your spending power here becomes so much greater.

Trust me. Get out. It's the best decision I've ever made and there's absolutely no fucking way I would ever live in CA again.

[dmode]

I have lived in Texas. It absolutely sucks in many ways. No real cities (yes, I have been to Austin, doesn't count). Nothing compared to California when it comes to recreation, vacations, day trips, road trips etc. Acceptance of LGBT lifestyles. Very church oriented (I am a non believer). Low salaries, tech opportunities in Dallas and Houston are not comparable to the Bay.

[DarronWyke]

>No real cities

Erm...guess you don't count some of the largest metroplexes in the country as "cities", do you?

>when it comes to recreations, vacations, day trips, road trips

That's fairly accurate. We don't have a ton of touristy crap, but that's no big deal for me.

>Acceptance of LGBT lifestyles

Did you live in the country or something? Never seen a problem with it here. In any of the urban/metro areas it's no big deal.

>Very church oriented

So? I'm an atheist and I've never had any problems with it. You'll only find a problem if you're actively combative with people about it. Otherwise most people don't care.

>Low salaries, tech opportunities

Houston I can understand. But not Dallas. You must not be looking very hard is all I can say. Even when I haven't been actively looking I get hit up by recruiters all the time. Either that or you're in a very, very specialized field with very low overall demand. My salary has also been going up constantly, and with the cost of living I can live very comfortably with what I make (and I'm not even in the top parts).

[sholnay]

>when it comes to recreations, vacations, day trips, road trips

>>That's fairly accurate. We don't have a ton of touristy crap, but that's no big deal for me.

I get what you're saying (though Texas definitely has a fair share of tourist traps). I think it's worth mentioning this is potentially a large lifestyle component for some (possible deal breaker too). The difference between California and Texas is vast.

Texas has extreme weather compared to the west coast and it should not be ignored. There is less geographical variety through the entire state, and what variety there is can potentially be very far (Dallas to Big Bend Park is an 8 hour drive!). If you enjoy the outdoors and outdoor activities and your only reference is California, you may be surprised in the summer when the temperature does not cool in the evenings like a coastal city (even on the gulf coast). The gulf coast water temperatures in the summer can be 90 degrees! A July beach trip in Galveston is not enjoyable and potentially deadly just from temperatures. No mountains or large points of reference can be dizzying. Living in an air-conditioned bubble for 8 months of the year can get frustrating. If you live in southern California, you can go from the beach to snowy mountains in the same day. You can drive an hour or two and be in some of the most beautiful coastal cities in the country, or wineries with some of the best wine in the country. You can go hiking in December without a jacket and you can go hiking in July and need a light coat. You can basically switch any month of the year and still be comfortable. Obviously there is some hyperbole in my examples but the main points stands.

It's worth mentioning that if none of that matters much to you, then you'd enjoy Texas a great bit. There is a ton of culture. Depending on the city, there is a mishmash of everything social you could want or imagine. Food is great and cheap (or expensive, they can suit any taste or appetite to spend money or not).

>Acceptance of LGBT lifestyles

>>Did you live in the country or something? Never seen a problem with it here. In any of the urban/metro areas it's no big deal.

I have a good friend who still cannot come out at work for fear of mistreatment - in the city. I agree that it's generally friendly and accepted in the cities but nowhere near the same as the west coast. I'm gay and I've lived in California and Texas and there is no comparison on the two in terms of acceptance. I would hesitate to hold my partners hand or come out to new acquaintances in Texas. Not so much in California (or the west coast in general). You may not see it but the pressures exists and the difference is real.

>Very church oriented

>>So? I'm an atheist and I've never had any problems with it. You'll only find a problem if you're actively combative with people about it. Otherwise most people don't care.

Agreed, I've never had problems with it, but it is more in your face. There are benefits to being atheist in Texas, travel is lighter and shopping/etc is much easier on Sunday mornings. I got asked what church I attend much more frequently. I've also witnessed more extreme views in Texas that I don't appreciate, but this is what shapes a person, so it's not all bad. One anecdote comes to mind: Driving to work at 7am and seeing a large line of people (maybe 100). Turns out they were all protesting abortions outside of a clinic. Normally I wouldn't think much about them but they held giant signs of unborn bloodied fetuses and encouraged their children to hold signs and yell violently as well (kids no older than 5, 6, 7). This scene affected me more than normal because a family member recently needed a late term emergency abortion which these people found despicable.

Anyway, I lived in Texas and found my way. I met some of my best friends there and know they will be there for life. I made do with hot and cold weather. I enjoyed the amazing food options and wonderfully low cost of living. It's central to the US so getting to the east or west coast is not a big deal. Airports are huge and you can fly a lot of places direct. I've seen some amazing storms in Texas, more lightning than I thought was possible, and some great sunsets.

I encourage people to keep an open mind about Texas. There are great people there and it offers a lot of opportunity, but it's not for everyone.

[_seemethere]

Having lived in both Texas and now California I do have to say that the higher taxes do provide for better public everything.

Texas seems so far behind when it comes to things like parks, transportation, and publicly available goods that coming to California is like a dream.

I'd happily pay more taxes to be able to have these things be available for everyone.

[DarronWyke]

>parks,

Been to a lot of very nice parks out here, nearly every city has one or more. Some of which are huge with large trails.

>transportation,

You might be confusing the Bay Area (or perhaps even LA) with all of California in general. I'm from San Diego originally. Public transportation there is a joke, plain and simple. BA and LA are both special in that regard.

>and publicly available goods

What is this?

[mabbo]

Get out, man. The region isn't trying to help people like you, with families, it's trying to help the entrenched who bought 20 years ago.

You may make less money in terms of income in most other cities, but your retirement savings will grow a lot faster regardless. I work on a traveling/remote team. One of my teammates lives in Chattanooga. His 3 bedroom house with I think 2 or 3 aces of land put him back a whopping $200,000.

[btrautsc]

Came to suggest this, cool that it already happened.

Can confirm. Founder in Chattanooga. About 13 of our people live here / TN.

Housing options (that appear) much better than in this thread with good public schools and sub-30 minute commute available. Specific ethnic communities may be harder to find.

Pretty great housing from $250-600k all over the place

[nether]

Lots of places like this. Check out this 3-bedroom with front porch, backyard, for $70,000 in Iowa: https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/IA/pmf,pf_pt/87001013_...

[biesnecker]

Ugh, look at the school ratings on that house, though. :-(

Not that there aren't a lot of places in the country with good schools and affordable housing prices, but for a lot of people with kids schools matter as much or more than housing prices.

[jerf]

"The sad part, as a ethnic-minority, I have just found our community for my kids, etc. It would be really tragic if I have to tear my kids away from that."

Contrary to apparently-popular belief (based on some other comments in this thread), the Bay Area is not the only place in the United States with ethnic-minority communities/enclaves, or the only region in the entire United States where "brown people" are not, apparently, shot on sight. Otherwise, how could there be articles about how "white" is on the verge of becoming a minority?

(I won't deny that the Bay Area is very, very liberal, but you're really in a filter bubble if you think it's the only one, or even remotely close to describable that way.)

[s_kilk]

> Otherwise, how could there be articles about how "white" is on the verge of becoming a minority?

Because the people writing those articles are full of shit.

[groupthink--]

if by "brown people" you mean hispanic, that doesn't do much good for OP, who is most likely asian or indian. hispanic kids are even worse than white kids when it comes to making life hell for asian kids.

[5706906c06c]

Armenian, actually, and that reduces the numbers to a very small population here, Fresno and L.A.

Edit: there are other communities on the East Coast AFAIK, but I would be trading this for that.

[junkcollector]

Dallas specifically has a sizeable and vibrant Armenian community in the northern suburbs which also have very good schools and are affordable when compared to anywhere in Cali. North of Dallas is also a significant tech hub.

[5706906c06c]

I have no idea, thank you!

[amyjess]

Still plenty of places in the country where there are large Indian communities.

There are a lot of Indians in Dallas; GP can come here. Or if GP doesn't want to live in a solid red state, there's always Millbourne, PA, which is over 40% Indian.

[netule]

I'm in the same boat. Been here since 2012 and feel like I've wasted the good part of my twenties on this place. I'm desperate to get out of here but I'm having a hard time saving money and finding a place I'd want to to move to.

I'm only half jokingly considering becoming an off the grid hermit.

[srathi]

I'm in the exact same situation, minus the BART part. Not sure how long can I wait to buy a house.

Also, If your commute is 30 min, then you are probably living around Fremont. Is the rent for 900sqft that high over there? This is touching SF territory.

[5706906c06c]

San Bruno, pretty much SF territory. My family owned and lived in Fremont, and my brother's commute often hovered around 60+ minutes on BART.

[abritinthebay]

If you are paying that much in rent you can afford a mortgage on a larger place that’s a reasonable commute to the city.

Now it'll likely be a condo, not a single-family home (that'll be more, or further way, or not as nice) but it's doable for sure. Not in SF, but just outside (Oakland, Fremont, Daly City, etc)

What you can get will depend on what you can wrangle as a deposit but there are plenty of options if you can get 10% down.

Source: it’s what I did recently and I pay less than that for a 1300sq ft place in Oakland

[5706906c06c]

I looked over 35th ave, which is fairly decent. Are there other pockets I should be looking at?

[abritinthebay]

It's amazing what comes up. A lot depends on your deposit. If you can swing a total cost of ~$750-850k home price then you have a LOT of options in the East Bay.

There are some really nice places that show up in Rockridge that are reasonable and if you're ok with a little less nice of an area the NoBe area is good too. In Oakland you can do surprisingly well near Highway 13 in the foothills or nearish Mills College.

If you don't mind the commute (I would) then Pleasanton is affordable (just) for large single-family homes, but it's a long ass commute.

There's a ton in the Fremont/Hayward area if you're doing a South Bay commute tho, and that opens up Pleasanton a bit more too.

If you're already driving to work then look to neighborhoods nowhere near BART as reasonable proximity to that can add a 1.5-2x multiplier to the price.

[wils1245]

What’s a reasonable commute? If you’re in any of those places and commuting to SF you’re likely looking at an hour to get to work.

[abritinthebay]

It can be an hour to get to work if you live in SF. Just depends where you live and where you work (commute from the Sunset by bus to the FiDi - it’s going to take close to an hour).

Whereas I live in Oakland and door to door it’s about 45mins if I time it right.

So I’m not sure what your objection is. Working in a big city (be it SF, NYC, or London) means you’ll have commute time.

[jraby3]

Wow that is a crazy rent. I also live with a wife and two kids in about a 1000 sq. ft. apartment and make a similar income (but pay $2k rent). I've been squirreling away $50k per year and buying cheap homes to help with passive income. Up to about $7k per month which helps a lot both in terms of future saving and investing and also with peace of mind if I ever lose my job.

[cat199]

> squirreling away $50k per year

If you can save that much, it's not really 'squirreling'..

[cisanti]

The whole SV area is out of touch with reality.

[breitling]

Hey - what area do you invest in? Mind if I ask you a couple questions? please email me at trackoid at gmail dot com

I'm also interested in REI, but not sure where the returns are in this market.

[3pt14159]

What's the plan though?

Like, tuck away the money to buy a place somewhere else? Or are you waiting for a housing correction?

[5706906c06c]

Option A, save to buy elsewhere. Option B, housing market correction, though unclear if that'll happen, so probably A. Option C, continue renting, save for kids college and retirement if I can't make it happen in the next 3-5 years, and realizing I'm being aggressively pessimistic.

[dragontamer]

> The sad part, as a ethnic-minority, I have just found our community for my kids, etc.

California has a number of Asian communities, but depending on which culture you want... there are plenty of other cities out there.

Filipinos are basically everywhere in the USA as far as I can tell... Vietnamese and Koreans are a bit more rare but still exist in virtually every major Metropolian area in the USA (New York, DC, Austin).

A bit of exploration / tourism can go a long way. Visit other cities and look for a new home. Locals often can point you the way towards "Chinatowns" (even if they're mostly Vietnamese or whatever).

[MystK]

I was born and lived in the Silicon Valley all my life. I think you're over-exaggerating the issue.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1052-Montgomery-Ave-San-B...

Here's a 1200 SQFT 4 bedroom home in San Bruno for only 700k.

The fact is that you are looking at homes over your budget, especially if you haven't saved a sizable down payment. Yes it's worse than other areas, but there are a lot of opportunities for people here.

[linkregister]

That house will sell for $850k.

But yes, the OP should be able to easily afford it.

[cdkee]

I'm 26, and I just bought a 2 bed 1 bath 850 sqft condo in Santa Clara for 570k.

My payments are insane, basically 4k a month. I'm able to get by because my wife works too so we aren't entirely living hand to mouth.

Since I bought in June, an identical condo in the same complex sold for around 600k.

It really burns when you consider that even in Sacramento you could probably get a full sized single-family home for what I paid...just at the cost of being further away from work.

I've been living in the Bay Area since I was 7, and I've almost been priced out of it. Does not feel good.

[philgoetz]

You don't RENT in that area. You have to buy. Then you can sell it later, and get back all that extra money you were paid for living in a place with high housing costs.

[conanbatt]

That amount of money should suffice to mortgage a house if you can..people with less income buy houses in the area.

However..remember that buying a house does not save you rent. You become an owner, so either you pay rent to the owner, or you stiff him, which happens to be you.

[5706906c06c]

Definitely aware of the trade offs, doing the means test indicates I should own, I digress. There is an emotional component, which is the kids. I grew up moving from one continent to another with no sense of security. I don't want the same for my kids, they deserve stability in their lives, and I've convinced myself that as a provider I need to make that happen for them.

[MystK]

Renting a place you don't own is definitely unstable.

[dmode]

I am curious where you are looking to buy. I bought 2 years back, 3000 sqft in Easy Bay close to a million. Have you looked at places like Hayward Hills, Union City, Dublin, San Ramon etc. ?

[5706906c06c]

Yes, Castro Valley, Hayward Hills, etc. Selfishly speaking, the issue with moving further out means longer commute + plus distance from the kids school, etc. At that point, I might as well move out of state.

[Consultant32452]

>The sad part, as a ethnic-minority, I have just found our community for my kids, etc.

Can you expand on what this means? Have you faced a lot of racism in SF?

[5706906c06c]

Oh no, I look like a white guy, I'm Armenian, which is a tiny community with literally one little school off of Brotherhood way. I wasn't one to care about that, but I have to tell you, whenever I take my kids to the birthday parties or some PTA event, I sort of feel at home. It's odd because up until now, I didn't care about any of that, but I suppose my mortality is helping me prioritize on what matters in life. It's a mental and very much, an emotional struggle having to compromise.

[alphonsegaston]

Maybe think about LA? You can make that salary and own a home easily. And the Armenian community there is great!

[linkregister]

Los Angeles? Isn’t Los Angeles even worse for housing:income:commute?

[alphonsegaston]

Commutes are on par with San Francisco, but housing and income aren’t as bad yet. Wait another 5 years and they might be at parity with the Bay area. But the bay could even be further off the rails by then.

[groupthink--]

take my word for it, do it for your kids and stay in california. figure out a way to make the money. just figure it out dude. rent forever if you have to, and don't tell anyone. do whatever it takes.

being harassed and ridiculed endlessly for being non-white (i'm guessing asian or indian) somewhere inexpensive and 90% homogenous (white or hispanic or black) will produce extremely negative results, to put it mildly. dealing with racism on TV and in movies is one thing, dealing with it in real life is an entirely different proposition.