[dbrian]

He is implying that the algorithms used by insurance companies are optimizing for profit instead of solely accessing the risk of payout. In other words, Tesla drivers are willing to pay a higher premium to mitigate the same risk.

[Spooky23]

Tesla is a super risky piece of kit for an insurer.

They are a sole source provider of sorts and maintain a tight lock on authorized body shops. Even a car with lots of low volume high cost parts like a Benz has a competitive market of resellers, dealers and service providers.

Tesla is the problem here. Having them be an insurance provider just makes them a bigger problem.

[greglindahl]

Can you name any aluminum-bodied car that doesn't lock down authorized body shops?

[Spooky23]

I know that BMW has 50+ in my state, and that Tesla recently doubled their authorized body shop count — to 2.

[greglindahl]

And all 50+ BMW authorized body shops can work on BMW's aluminum-bodied cars? Only a modest % of BMW's cars are aluminum-bodied.

A little googling shows sentences like "Any body shop you are considering to repair your BMW 5 and 6 series, should be specifically equipped to perform special aluminum welding." and "As part of our CERTIFICATIONS by various manufacturers, we are required to purchase state of the art tools specifically for aluminum repair."

[dogruck]

In the competitive car insurance market, how can you optimize for profit without incorporating the risk of payout?

[afarrell]

Thats not what the parent is saying. The parent is saying that, in the same way that retailers might act on the knowledge that OSX users are willing to pay higher prices for goods, insurers act on the knowledge that Tesla drivers are more risk-averse.

[Spooky23]

Its a pretty bold accusation. Car insurance is probably the most competitive market out there.

Why would dozens of car insurers in multiple states collude to hurt poor Tesla and put themselves at risk of Federal and State sanction? If they were doing that for a tiny niche automaker like Tesla, why wouldn’t they screw over BMW or Lexus?

This whole controversy is just a distraction to draw attention from Tesla’s service practices and support for a integrated “car as a service” model where Tesla owns financing, sales and insurance.

[afarrell]

> why wouldn't they screw over BMW and Lexus?

Because Tesla markets itself as "the safest car on the road".

> collude

Who is saying anything about collusion?

[Spooky23]

So did Volvo for decades. You didn’t need magic Volvo insurance.

When you have a highly competitive market, and most participants decide to make an identical business decision that isn’t in their competitive interest (ie charge a high margin for a commodity), that’s generally accepted as evidence of collusion.

[microcolonel]

Maybe there's something preventing the car insurance market from being competitive, who knows.

[dogruck]

Are you implying collusion?

Have you noticed the massive amount of money the competing car companies spend on advertising? Have you ever suspected collusion when you shopped for your own car insurance?

[wtallis]

> Have you noticed the massive amount of money the competing car companies spend on advertising?

Have you ever suspected that maybe they put so much effort into advertising because it takes a lot to get someone to bother to switch insurers?

[dogruck]

Why do you think people are reluctant to switch? Perhaps because the market is so competitive that there really isn't much difference between the offerings?

[pwinnski]

All these hypotheticals!

I don't switch because it's a pain to even try. I've had experiences in which a price I was quoted turned out to be lower than I was actual billed, so I don't have a lot of confidence that I'll get a straight answer if I do ask for quotes for new companies. I'm not sure I have accurate answers for questions they might ask. So I keep paying whatever, even though it's more than I like.

For all I know, I could be paying half as much elsewhere. This is just the company I've been with for many, many years.

[thisisit]

I might have missed it. Which line implies that?

Additionally how does that turn the car insurance world upside down?