[bobbinsbob]

I know this won't be a popular comment but it never surprises me that this attitude that police should be guilty until proven innocent arrises. It seems to be the default setting. Just like the way everyone hates the police until they need them.

Everything is at some point the fault of the police. It seems like everyone wants the police to do only what they want them to and to be punished if the police do something different.

Now I don't come from the US so can't comment on the problems with the police there and I don't know how the police there are funded but I know from my country that some of the "solutions" stated to hold the police to account would bankrupt the police here, but then I suppose that's the fault of the police as well.

I'm all for bodycams though because at the end of the day when a fabricated complaint comes in (my experience is most of them are) then these can be easily dismissed and hopefully those people actually held to account.

[stupidcar]

I can't really believe there's a straight up choice between non-corrupt police and bankrupt police departments. It is true that US police seem to funded in ways that create incentives to corruption. An ideological commitment to low taxes means institutions like the police need to find other sources of revenue. This leads to a proliferation of regulations and drug and driving laws that can be used to impose fines, systems like civil forfeiture, and reliance on private "donations".

In the long term, this leads to a fundamentally adversarial and extractive relationship between the police and the populace, and the situation right now where police are widely hated, or at least distrusted, by significant sections of the population.

The solution to all of this is to break this extractive relationship: To prevent the police from profiting from the enforcement of some laws over others, or from seizing property only to sell it for their own gain. And, yes, to accept a rate of general taxation and redistribution that can be used to fund the institutions of a modern state. So long as the US continues to pursue the current tax model, the same shortfalls and perverse incentives to find alternative sources of revenue with exist, leading to the same poor outcomes in so many areas of government.

[libertyEQ]

The US is not a monolithic entity, and various states handle civil asset forfeiture differently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United...

Many places in the US don't have these problems, so there is nothing to solve.

[uoaei]

Ok so hunger isn't a problem because people in Europe are generally well-fed? This follows the same line of reasoning as the one you are using now.

[libertyEQ]

My point was that localities differ greatly across the US (and Europe for that matter), and should be taken care of at a local level rather than from the centralized location of DC. I don't want to live in a police state, so I choose to live in a small town that doesn't have the issues that our big cities have.

[bobbinsbob]

Like I say I can't comment on the US system regards it's policing practices, from the outside looking in it all seems open to abuse. Where I come from the government funds the police, they don't make any profit from the likes of tickets etc.

Currently the police are savagely being under funded as are all public sectors and crime is on the rise but the difference between the police and other public services is that people seem to understand why the other public services are not performing as good as they were, but it's the fault to the police they aren't performing as good.

Like I said I would love to see bodycams on all police but as with every public body ICT project it will be mismanaged and cost way more than it needs to. Currently the police where I am can't afford it.

[dnautics]

Crime is not on the rise and the police are not underfunded(0). Where did you get this information?

(0) Their pension plans are underfunded, but those plans are rediculous compared to private sector plans.

[libertyEQ]

The person you are responding to stated that they are not in the US.

[hobs]

We dont hate the police, but have no method to keep them accountable and awful behavior has been proven endemic in police forces around the country.

Why is it hateful to the police to actually ask for their interactions? As the modern authoritarian state asks its citizens, what do you have to hide?

[bobbinsbob]

Well like I said I'm not from the US and have no answers to a system that seems completely and obviously open to abuse. I'm always puzzled why it's the way it is in the US, the whole justice system seems like a farce especially the way the courts work.

I'm all from transparency, not only does it keep the cops right but it also means cops are safe from fabricated complaints they are subject to. I just find some of the ideas here about how to do this ridiculous from a reality perspective. And to suggest that the police should be presumed guilty it actually worse than ridiculous.

[Larrikin]

Which country?

[someguydave]

The problem is that we are raising expectations for police behavior and are unwilling to recruit and pay for that kind of staffing.

It seems people want police to be johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to cracking down on crime immediately while simultaneously exercising extreme discretion and self-control when it comes to respecting legal rights and responsibilities.

I'm not sure who could even fulfill those kinds of expectations but it would be someone like a grizzled experienced prosecutor who has defense lawyer experience who is in good physical condition and is physically well trained.

I doubt the pool of people who meet those criteria are willing to work for police salaries.